Sir Robert Peel, Father of Modern Policing - Page 7
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Sir Robert Peel, Father of Modern Policing

This is a discussion on Sir Robert Peel, Father of Modern Policing within the General Talk forums, part of the General Discussion category; Originally Posted by Inor SF - You and I agree on almost everything (except remakes of Frank Sinatra songs). But damn man, if I wanted ...

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Thread: Sir Robert Peel, Father of Modern Policing

  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Inor View Post
    SF -

    You and I agree on almost everything (except remakes of Frank Sinatra songs). But damn man, if I wanted to live in London, I would move to England. I do not want CCTV on cops or citizens. We have the forensic science to be able to piece together a crime scene very accurately without cameras everywhere. For those instances where the science does not work, I prefer Jefferson's adage: It is better to let a guilty man go free [and have his face punched in by Inor] than to persecute an innocent man. (Part of that was added by me in case you thought Thomas Jefferson was clairvoyant.)
    INOR don't get me wrong...I don't like public cameras and would prefer there only be cameras that a company wants to install in their own place of business...But the one place I do want cameras is on police officers as a means to keep them honest and to help me protect my rights. I have heard stories (not verified) of folks getting there phones confiscated as evidence when they tried to record a traffic stop and never getting them back. So I would prefer to know that there is at least one camera feed that is mandated and if subpoenaed through the courts, could be retrieved, and it's lack of submission (corrupted data, etc) would count in my favor. I am not a fan at all of having cameras capture me scratching my ass on the street and popping up on youtube...but when I have to interact with a cop...I think the good out weighs the bad.
    Last edited by Old SF Guy; 11-29-2014 at 07:35 AM.

  2. #62
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    I'm not opposed to dashcams or cameras on the Officer themselves. If they are doing heir job the right way it shouldn't matter and will actually serve to exonerate Officers who are wrongly accused.

    I worked a traffic crash in which an uninsured, illegal alien struck another car. When I arrived it had already become a heated argument. I separated them to separate parking lots. I issued the illegal two citations and explained that he would have to call his friends or family for a ride home as he was unlicensed. The other driver was inconsolable. He yelled at me the whole time came at me with a closed fist and threatened to sue. I gave him a report number and advised him to call his insurance company. The next day he filed an official complaint and began casting aspersions against me on Social Media. I was instructed to report to the Chief's Office. It had already been decided that I would be punished. I had not even been given the opportunity to give my account.

    I asked my supervisor if anyone was interested in watching the footage of the incident from my Mobile Video Recorder he said "There's a video?". Great investigative skills boss.....Yes. The video completely exonerated me and the Chief said only "You showed great restraint and patience with that guy." The insults kept pouring in from the driver until I threatened civil action for defamation and made sure everyone knew the whole incident was recorded and that the tape was available for public viewing. That video saved my butt and I did nothing wrong. Sometimes we are guilty before we even get a chance to explain what happened from our perspective. It is one of the reasons that when I retire from Police work I'm done.
    Denton and bigwheel like this.
    "There is a destiny that shapes our ends, Rough, hew them as we will."

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boss Dog View Post
    Lil'Mike did not "die for a box of cigars or for walking in the street". He died for attacking a police officer and when he could have gotten away, he came back for a second helping. A police officer has as much right to self defence and survival as you or me.
    A former career cop and talk radio host once said; (paraphrased) "You know why blacks make up 12% of the nations population and 49% of the prison population? Because they're guilty!" Ken Hamblin aka The Black Avenger.
    So you are saying there was no prior interaction between Wilson and Brown? or between Brown and other members of the Ferguson police department?

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  5. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by mhans827 View Post
    in my city, we the cops, asked for the camera. city hall and the people would not allow it for the same reasons you wrote above. you are right about some cops being corrupt and abusive, we do have them in our department too. but out of 5,000 police you may have a dozen of them bad apples. the camera will improve that to 99% good cops. but the people do not want to get caught, imagine if a citizen committed a crime and it was on film, how would the judge hand down a slap on the wrist. my city has a very high crime rate due to the revolving door justice system (thank to the democrats). without the cameras, judges are able to give out slaps on the wrist, give them the minimum sentence and they are out to commit crime again. there is an officer who bought his own camera and wears it on duty. he was threatened by the department, they said he had to take them off because it was not authorized. he got wrongfully sued on time and presented a video, he got acquitted and saved the city some money and they were not even thankful for that. you talk about corrupt cops, yes there are bad cops.... if you only knew how corrupt the city hall could get it would blow your mind.
    I applaud you for wanting the cameras, but "the people" don't decide what equipment you have or there would not be a single MRAP in a police department anywhere. Do the people decide whether you have body armor? I suggest you buy your own camera. I understand they run about $3-400 each for a good one.

    If the city doesn't like it change jobs. If you work as a cop for a corrupt city, then what are you?
    Last edited by Diver; 11-29-2014 at 11:12 AM.

  6. #65
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    Mr. Diver I think you will be the first to meet Mr. Twit Filter on here.

  7. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigwheel View Post
    Mr. Diver I think you will be the first to meet Mr. Twit Filter on here.
    If we have a good cop that wants to protect himself from bogus claims by wearing a camera, no one should stop him from doing so.

    On the other hand if he thinks his employer is corrupt and he's a cop, why isn't he addressing the problem? I've quit jobs over less. There is always employment for good people.
    Denton likes this.

  8. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Diver View Post
    If we have a good cop that wants to protect himself from bogus claims by wearing a camera, no one should stop him from doing so.

    On the other hand if he thinks his employer is corrupt and he's a cop, why isn't he addressing the problem? I've quit jobs over less. There is always employment for good people.
    Some people actually think they can make a difference and make things better. Personally, I think life will simply chew them up.
    MrsInor likes this.
    "Reality is almost always wrong."
    Dr. Gregory House

  9. #68
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    To use physical force only when the exercise of persuasion, advice and warning is found to be insufficient to obtain public co-operation to an extent necessary to secure observance of law or to restore order, and to use only the minimum degree of physical force which is necessary on any particular occasion for achieving a police objective.

    Another rule that was instilled upon this once young pup.

    Yeah, yeah, there are going to be times when you are faced with an angry, violent person who gives you know choice. That is a given, so I don't think I even need to bring it up.

    What should be a cop's best tool when dealing with people? Not a can of mace, a taser or a sidearm, but his mind. Being able to deal with human beings as a human being, with empathy, compassion and understanding, coupled with appropriate humor can diffuse a lot of otherwise bad situations.

    A way it was put to me, years ago. You've done something wrong if your presence on the scene causes the situation to worsen. You are doing things right if the situation gets better. There's no clock ticking; you have all the time you need.

    The U.S. Army Police motto is, "Of the Troops and For the Troops." It is not, "Above the Troops and Beat the Crap Out of the Troops." Just one example that popped into mind.
    MrsInor, Diver and bigwheel like this.
    "Reality is almost always wrong."
    Dr. Gregory House

  10. #69
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    Officer presence is the first step in the use of force continuum. The second, and one that we simply don't train enough on is verbal dialog. The ability to deescalate a situation and convince a person to comply is an absolute gift that few officers possess. There are plenty of "Cops" out there but precious few "Peacemakers" and "Peace Officers". "Cops" think the "Peacemakers" aloof and affable while the antithesis is no more accurate. We have to strike a balance in this profession, now more than ever. A good, professional Police Officer must be able to go from one end of the spectrum to the other in an instant. he or she is perpetually in the middle.
    "There is a destiny that shapes our ends, Rough, hew them as we will."

  11. #70
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    Right right. Verbal Judo. Good point.

 

 
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