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Sir Robert Peel, Father of Modern Policing

This is a discussion on Sir Robert Peel, Father of Modern Policing within the General Talk forums, part of the General Discussion category; Originally Posted by Denton I see your point. What do I think of such activity. Considering this is the Peel's Principles thread, I think you ...

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Thread: Sir Robert Peel, Father of Modern Policing

  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Denton View Post
    I see your point. What do I think of such activity. Considering this is the Peel's Principles thread, I think you know what I think of such actions.

    Do I think Wilson provoked the situation in such a manner? I don't think so. Furthermore, I don't think it would've been needed for the situation to escalate. The two thugs were walking down the middle of the street. These two thugs didn't drop out of the sky with no understanding of streets and sidewalks. I've seen this tactic, before.
    Well, if we had camera footage we would know. That's why I think we need body cameras. The camera actually causes the behavior of everyone involved to be better.

    You might enjoy the book "Arrest Proof Yourself" by Dale Carson. It's available n Kindle.
    Old SF Guy likes this.

  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Denton View Post
    Plain clothed cops infiltrating a protest to whip up segments of the crowd so that the uniforms can move in and grab them. A way to control the events so that the arrests can be made on the department's time line.
    No such thing, at least not where I work.

  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by mhans827 View Post
    yes, body camera is the answer to this, unfortunately not all cities would allow it. why you ask... because the courts could no longer fudge the punishments it should render on criminals. and there are cities that over half of their residents have been either arrested, in jail, on probation or parole. now if you have body camera, how would the people whine and cry of police wrong doing if they have the proof. body camera will make these people look bad and they don't like that. when I work the streets, people love recording me. when I pull out my cell phone they get mad as hell and tell me I don't have the right to video record them on the streets. the problem these days, the kids are taught to hate the police, especially the white police. people don't want to follow rules as simple as parking your vehicle when you want to stop and talk to your buddies on the street. they wont do that. they would stop in the middle of the street to chat and hold traffic. they think you should wait for them and act like the road was built for their personal use alone. so when a patrol man stops these types of people, the cop will be labeled as racist because the issue is petty and they say " don't you have anything else better to do" the bottom line is, if you are a cop, you are already wrong. no matter what a cop does, good or bad its the same thing. cops are always wrong. so yes body camera will provide proof of how people act on the streets.
    But the answer to that is simple...do not leave it up to your city...start a movement to get it on the ballot at the City or state level...Nothing better than starting a petition. We The People could make that a mandate on police and the city, vice them simply choosing to do it.

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  5. #54
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    The bottom line is this...Sure there are some bad cops...and there are some bad citizens....Cameras show everyone who was what in a situation...If they can put CCT cameras up everywhere to capture images of the citizens doing bad things (traffic cams, etc) then they should put them where it benefits both the city and the citizens...on the enforcers of laws so that both sides get equal opportunity to have truth represented. (exceptions for undercover work obviously). This would cut so many BS lawsuits out of the system it would save millions over all. "He assaulted me!!!" Ah...ma'am...would you like to review the video footage?"....wha' video??? .ya'll didn't ax me bout no damn video takin....It's the law ma'am we have to now because of all the BS lawsuits and lies......awwww shit......"
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  6. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Old SF Guy View Post
    The bottom line is this...Sure there are some bad cops...and there are some bad citizens....Cameras show everyone who was what in a situation...If they can put CCT cameras up everywhere to capture images of the citizens doing bad things (traffic cams, etc) then they should put them where it benefits both the city and the citizens...on the enforcers of laws so that both sides get equal opportunity to have truth represented. (exceptions for undercover work obviously). This would cut so many BS lawsuits out of the system it would save millions over all. "He assaulted me!!!" Ah...ma'am...would you like to review the video footage?"....wha' video??? .ya'll didn't ax me bout no damn video takin....It's the law ma'am we have to now because of all the BS lawsuits and lies......awwww shit......"
    SF -

    You and I agree on almost everything (except remakes of Frank Sinatra songs). But damn man, if I wanted to live in London, I would move to England. I do not want CCTV on cops or citizens. We have the forensic science to be able to piece together a crime scene very accurately without cameras everywhere. For those instances where the science does not work, I prefer Jefferson's adage: It is better to let a guilty man go free [and have his face punched in by Inor] than to persecute an innocent man. (Part of that was added by me in case you thought Thomas Jefferson was clairvoyant.)
    mhans827 likes this.
    rest in peace Corporal Bradley Coy 06/08/92-10/24/14

    Rest in Peace Sgt Mackie. 10/19/19

  7. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by mhans827 View Post
    No such thing, at least not where I work.
    We had plenty of that BS during Vietnam era protests, mostly feds. I have no idea how much is involved now.

  8. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Inor View Post
    SF -

    You and I agree on almost everything (except remakes of Frank Sinatra songs). But damn man, if I wanted to live in London, I would move to England. I do not want CCTV on cops or citizens. We have the forensic science to be able to piece together a crime scene very accurately without cameras everywhere. For those instances where the science does not work, I prefer Jefferson's adage: It is better to let a guilty man go free [and have his face punched in by Inor] than to persecute an innocent man. (Part of that was added by me in case you thought Thomas Jefferson was clairvoyant.)
    Unfortunately it is already like that around here. I get photographed at about half the traffic lights I go through now and I am in a low crime area. When I go into NY I probably pass 15 cops on the short walk to change trains and am subject to searches. The NSA now has every phone call, email and forum post I make. I've long since lost count of the number of times I have been fingerprinted. Despite privacy laws Obamacare has essentially made all of our healthcare records public property.

    I was monitored less when I was in Russia than I am here today.

  9. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Diver View Post
    Thank you for posting this. I've been reading more Ferguson threads than I care to and this brings a bit of balance.

    I do not trust cops. I have yet to meet any that have the competence expressed in these rules so they do not have my trust. I also recognize that the typical young black male in an urban area has it much worse than I do.

    Assuming Michael Brown was not a total fool, he had probably been in constant conflict with the police in Ferguson from the age of 12, one third of his life. That is likely the backstory on the night he got killed. He may have even been previously hassled by Wilson from the age of 12.

    He was a thug by 18 because he was likely tagged with a criminal record from age 12. Brown at 18 is an unsympathetic character, but despite the comments here, did not deserve to die for a box of cigars or for walking in the street. From everything I have seen in the news Ferguson's police department has squandered any trust the community may have had long before Brown was killed. The protests and riots have little to do with Brown and are much more about hatred of the police who are the opposite of the principles expressed above.
    Lil'Mike did not "die for a box of cigars or for walking in the street". He died for attacking a police officer and when he could have gotten away, he came back for a second helping. A police officer has as much right to self defence and survival as you or me.
    A former career cop and talk radio host once said; (paraphrased) "You know why blacks make up 12% of the nations population and 49% of the prison population? Because they're guilty!" Ken Hamblin aka The Black Avenger.
    And he will be a wild man; his hand will be against every man, and every man's hand against him;... Genesis 16:12

  10. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Old SF Guy View Post
    The bottom line is this...Sure there are some bad cops...and there are some bad citizens....Cameras show everyone who was what in a situation...If they can put CCT cameras up everywhere to capture images of the citizens doing bad things (traffic cams, etc) then they should put them where it benefits both the city and the citizens...on the enforcers of laws so that both sides get equal opportunity to have truth represented. (exceptions for undercover work obviously). This would cut so many BS lawsuits out of the system it would save millions over all. "He assaulted me!!!" Ah...ma'am...would you like to review the video footage?"....wha' video??? .ya'll didn't ax me bout no damn video takin....It's the law ma'am we have to now because of all the BS lawsuits and lies......awwww shit......"
    in my city, we the cops, asked for the camera. city hall and the people would not allow it for the same reasons you wrote above. you are right about some cops being corrupt and abusive, we do have them in our department too. but out of 5,000 police you may have a dozen of them bad apples. the camera will improve that to 99% good cops. but the people do not want to get caught, imagine if a citizen committed a crime and it was on film, how would the judge hand down a slap on the wrist. my city has a very high crime rate due to the revolving door justice system (thank to the democrats). without the cameras, judges are able to give out slaps on the wrist, give them the minimum sentence and they are out to commit crime again. there is an officer who bought his own camera and wears it on duty. he was threatened by the department, they said he had to take them off because it was not authorized. he got wrongfully sued on time and presented a video, he got acquitted and saved the city some money and they were not even thankful for that. you talk about corrupt cops, yes there are bad cops.... if you only knew how corrupt the city hall could get it would blow your mind.

  11. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Diver View Post
    We had plenty of that BS during Vietnam era protests, mostly feds. I have no idea how much is involved now.
    we don't put infiltrator. we pull out our video cameras. I have been on these kinds of assignment already, during Treyvon martin and Michael brown protest. and no the protest was not even near ferguson. I was tasked to video tape the protesters and the agitators. by the way, I wrote a response about body cameras not being allowed in my city by our powers to be, but we used cameras when we are and our careers are put in harms way. besides if nothing happens the footage will just be forgotten. but as for infiltrators to start trouble so arrest could be done, we don't do that. if a police agency does that, I think a good lawyer could get them for 1A violation and other charges too.

 

 
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