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Sir Robert Peel, Father of Modern Policing

This is a discussion on Sir Robert Peel, Father of Modern Policing within the General Talk forums, part of the General Discussion category; Originally Posted by ntxwheels Want some cheese with that whine?? Nope, but I will be treated with the same respect that is asked of me. ...

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Thread: Sir Robert Peel, Father of Modern Policing

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by ntxwheels View Post
    Want some cheese with that whine??
    Nope, but I will be treated with the same respect that is asked of me. My opinion of cops has been formed by the cops I have met. They have been disrespectful and frequently hostile. If a cop cannot maintain some civility when he stops someone for weaving in traffic, then he is not a professional and does not deserve my respect. He deserves ridicule.

    His colleagues who permit him to continue in the job do not deserve my respect either.

    With that background, what I am to think when cops shoot a 12 year old boy playing with a toy gun? My reaction is that this is what happens when a fool like the one who stopped me for weaving in traffic confronts a situation that he is too stupid to decipher. This is the price for a lack of professionalism, which brings us back to the OP and the principles.

    With outcomes like this, is there any reason for the community to trust that the local police force is competent to do the job? Do they meet Robert Peel's standard? Does the cop who stopped me for weaving in traffic meet Robert Peel's standard? In both cases I think the cops have failed to meet the standard set by Robert Peel.
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  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Diver View Post
    Sorry, but I am a law abiding citizen and I have had too many experiences with bad cops to agree and I am white, so I can't even blame race. Most of the traffic stops I have experienced have been totally unprofessional as well.

    Here in NY we had a case last week where a cop shot a guy in a stairwell in an apartment building. The guy had done nothing wrong. He just happened to enter the stairwell at the wrong moment. The police are describing it as an "accidental discharge". Once you take a gun out of the holster, it isn't an accident.

    Sounds to me like that pastor is trying to keep these kids from getting killed.

    I feel we are at a point where every cop needs a body camera. Where they have been put in use violence both toward and by cops is way down.
    yes, body camera is the answer to this, unfortunately not all cities would allow it. why you ask... because the courts could no longer fudge the punishments it should render on criminals. and there are cities that over half of their residents have been either arrested, in jail, on probation or parole. now if you have body camera, how would the people whine and cry of police wrong doing if they have the proof. body camera will make these people look bad and they don't like that. when I work the streets, people love recording me. when I pull out my cell phone they get mad as hell and tell me I don't have the right to video record them on the streets. the problem these days, the kids are taught to hate the police, especially the white police. people don't want to follow rules as simple as parking your vehicle when you want to stop and talk to your buddies on the street. they wont do that. they would stop in the middle of the street to chat and hold traffic. they think you should wait for them and act like the road was built for their personal use alone. so when a patrol man stops these types of people, the cop will be labeled as racist because the issue is petty and they say " don't you have anything else better to do" the bottom line is, if you are a cop, you are already wrong. no matter what a cop does, good or bad its the same thing. cops are always wrong. so yes body camera will provide proof of how people act on the streets.
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  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Denton View Post
    Those of you who pursued a degree in Criminal Justice already know this, most likely. This is what we are missing in so many of our police departments, including my town's police department.

    The link and a recap of Peel's Principles:

    How 200-year-old police principles could have helped Ferguson - MarketWatch

    Perhaps it’s a return to these nine Peelian Principles. Here is the essence of each:

    A civilian police that prevents crime and disorder is much preferable to repression of crime by military force and draconian legal punishment.

    A police force’s power to fulfill its functions is dependent on public approval and respect of the police’s existence and actions.

    Securing the public’s cooperation with the work of the police force is critical for the police to be effective.

    The more help the police can get from the public, the less the threat of physical force is needed to achieve police objectives.

    Police must consistently seek public favor by demonstrating even-handed enforcement of the law, and through courtesy, good humor and a willingness to make personal sacrifices in service to the public, regardless of the wealth or social standing of the individuals involved.

    Police should use physical force only when the exercise of persuasion and warnings are insufficient to obtain an individual’s co-operation — and then only the absolute minimum degree of physical force needed.

    Police should always maintain a relationship with the public that gives reality to the historic tradition that the police are the public and the public are the police.

    Police officers must refrain from seeming to usurp the powers of the judiciary or the state. It’s not the job of the police to judge guilt or punish the guilty.

    Police officers must always recognize that the acid test of police efficiency is the absence of crime and disorder, not high-visibility police actions in dealing with them.
    this is all good and fine... but this wont matter to the guy who is getting arrested or getting the ticket. bottom line to them is cops are always assholes and always incompetent, stupid and has nothing else to do. oh, I almost forgot... cops are racist too.
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  5. #34
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    I had an interesting traffic stop about 12 years ago when I was still working. I had business in DC so I was spending the night in Roslyn, VA at a hotel right next to the Iwo Jima Memorial. I went to eat at a '50s style restaurant (kind of like a diner with juke boxes, etc., all playing the great music we grew up with). This diner was situated at a very weird intersection of Wilson Blvd. The parking lot was a merge point of traffic coming from 3 directions.
    I had my dinner (including one beer) and went out to the parking lot. As it was summer, it was still light outside. I got in my car and pulled out into the traffic, only to realize that I had pulled into this intersection on the wrong cycle of the traffic light. (I don't remember if the traffic light was actually visible from the parking lot -- or it could be that I took the wrong part of the parking lot to exit onto the street -- maybe an entrance instead of an exit?). Anyway, all of a sudden I had cars coming at me from all directions -- or so it seemed. I am not normally one to freeze in a hairy situation, but for this one I just stopped dead right there, not knowing which way to pull my car to get out of danger. Horns honking all over the place. All of sudden, I hear this HEAVY pounding on my left rear quarter of the car. I look up and I see this guy on bicycle wearing one of them funny looking lids .... but he had a light blue shirt on, and ...... uh oh ... it had a badge. He then beats on my window, so I lower it and he in a loud voice (to overcome the traffic noise) he yells -- WHAT ARE YOU DOING? I quickly explained that I was not from around there and didn't know the intersection. At this time, his partner -- a lady cop -- also shows up on a bike. The first cop's next words were ... "have you been drinking?" I quickly told him I had one beer. He looks at me again - and must have realized I was not drunk, so he shrugs it off and tells me to wait while he directs the traffic so that I can get on my way. No ticket, no warning.

    The suddenness with which these two bicycle cops appeared was pretty amazing.
    Last edited by DerBiermeister; 11-28-2014 at 08:57 AM.
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  6. #35
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    A lot of well thought out, intelligent posts in this thread. Are there bad cops? You bet. Did they and the government handle this wrong? I think so. and I agree with much of what was said here. ( with some reservations ) However, not to over simplify, and dispite the black community trying to raise this kids status to sainthood, based on what I saw in the video he was a thug and was probably heading to prison or death. He got death. Irregardless of police competency, racism, or weather he deserved to die for stealing cigars, and political correctness,This kid forced a bad situation. Both the kid in Furguson and the one in Florida, as far as I am concerned, where looking for trouble. They found it.
    bigwheel likes this.
    " All great things are simple, and many can be expressed in single words: Freedom, Justice, Honor, Duty, Mercy, Hope" .Hidden Content

  7. #36
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    I am curious how the posters in this thread feel about the police tactic of using inciters.
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  8. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Diver View Post
    I am curious how the posters in this thread feel about the police tactic of using inciters.
    Well, I must be a dumb ass, because I have no freaking idea what you are talking about?
    Denton and bigwheel like this.
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  9. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by DerBiermeister View Post
    I had an interesting traffic stop about 12 years ago when I was still working. I had business in DC so I was spending the night in Roslyn, VA at a hotel right next to the Iwo Jima Memorial. I went to eat at a '50s style restaurant (kind of like a diner with juke boxes, etc., all playing the great music we grew up with). This diner was situated at a very weird intersection of Wilson Blvd. The parking lot was a merge point of traffic coming from 3 directions.
    I had my dinner (including one beer) and went out to the parking lot. As it was summer, it was still light outside. I got in my car and pulled out into the traffic, only to realize that I had pulled into this intersection on the wrong cycle of the traffic light. (I don't remember if the traffic light was actually visible from the parking lot -- or it could be that I took the wrong part of the parking lot to exit onto the street -- maybe an entrance instead of an exit?). Anyway, all of a sudden I had cars coming at me from all directions -- or so it seemed. I am not normally one to freeze in a hairy situation, but for this one I just stopped dead right there, not knowing which way to pull my car to get out of danger. Horns honking all over the place. All of sudden, I hear this HEAVY pounding on my left rear quarter of the car. I look up and I see this guy on bicycle wearing one of them funny looking lids .... but he had a light blue shirt on, and ...... uh oh ... it had a badge. He then beats on my window, so I lower it and he in a loud voice (to overcome the traffic noise) he yells -- WHAT ARE YOU DOING? I quickly explained that I was not from around there and didn't know the intersection. At this time, his partner -- a lady cop -- also shows up on a bike. The first cop's next words were ... "have you been drinking?" I quickly told him I had one beer. He looks at me again - and must have realized I was not drunk, so he shrugs it off and tells me to wait while he directs the traffic so that I can get on my way. No ticket, no warning.

    The suddenness with which these two bicycle cops appeared was pretty amazing.
    Now, they could be called Robert's Runners! Good for them!
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  10. #39
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    My experiences with police have been professional. Apply the golden rule: treat them how you would like to be treated. Show a little respect and the majority of the time you will treated with respect.

    I got pulled over last week for speeding in my way home from work. It was a state trooper who have a reputation for being by the book jerks. I used the tips on how to deal with the police from a video posted to this site. Pull over, keys in the dash, hands in the wheel, license and insurance ready and a professional attitude. I got issued a warning. He told me to slow er down and be safe. I could have been a grumpy asshole, but that would have resulted in a similar attitude from the trooper and less money in my pocket. You have to realize how many crazies these guys deal with on a daily basis. They never know what they are walking up on. It could be a guy like me or it could be a sociopath with no respect for life. Just remember your rights and treat them with courtesy and you will be fine.
    DerBiermeister likes this.

  11. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by DerBiermeister View Post
    Well, I must be a dumb ass, because I have no freaking idea what you are talking about?
    Plain clothed cops infiltrating a protest to whip up segments of the crowd so that the uniforms can move in and grab them. A way to control the events so that the arrests can be made on the department's time line.
    bigwheel likes this.
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