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Sir Robert Peel, Father of Modern Policing

This is a discussion on Sir Robert Peel, Father of Modern Policing within the General Talk forums, part of the General Discussion category; Originally Posted by Diver Thank you for posting this. I've been reading more Ferguson threads than I care to and this brings a bit of ...

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Thread: Sir Robert Peel, Father of Modern Policing

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Diver View Post
    Thank you for posting this. I've been reading more Ferguson threads than I care to and this brings a bit of balance.

    I do not trust cops. I have yet to meet any that have the competence expressed in these rules so they do not have my trust. I also recognize that the typical young black male in an urban area has it much worse than I do.

    Assuming Michael Brown was not a total fool, he had probably been in constant conflict with the police in Ferguson from the age of 12, one third of his life. That is likely the backstory on the night he got killed. He may have even been previously hassled by Wilson from the age of 12.

    He was a thug by 18 because he was likely tagged with a criminal record from age 12. Brown at 18 is an unsympathetic character, but despite the comments here, did not deserve to die for a box of cigars or for walking in the street. From everything I have seen in the news Ferguson's police department has squandered any trust the community may have had long before Brown was killed. The protests and riots have little to do with Brown and are much more about hatred of the police who are the opposite of the principles expressed above.
    I both agree and disagree with some of what you have written. I think the LEO issues are from well over a century ago. Look at the history of cops in NY in the early gang wars period and even before in the 1800's dealing with the influx of immigrants and the hatred of irish, etc. All the way into the south during the civil rights strife. But today most blacks are taught by their families and communities from birth that cops are racists and hate them...so they hate white cops right back...it is racism on their part and they openly proclaim that hatred but no one calls them on it publicly. No matter how well police behave these days they will always be hated because it fits their cause and desire to continue to be handed things and coddled by the govt. The black leaders know this and propagate it. Obama knows this and wants to expand it on. . Mjjjjnn.k mexicans so that the elite among them gain power...they do not care. About their own people.
    bigdogbuc, ntxwheels and mhans827 like this.

  2. #12
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    Our nation has subscribed to a philosophy of "more" education is necessary for professions than I agree with. I have students in our academy with bachelors degrees and they are often the worst students because they "know" it all. I have advocated that a city which employs a cop costing $150,000 a year (cost not pay) would be better off paying 20 people $7,500 each a year (cost not full pay) to take care of their block and back up the next block over.
    Denton and bigwheel like this.
    This place has become more disturbing then SHTF.

  3. #13
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    Until blacks overcome their inner-city hood mentality -- there will NEVER be peace between those black thugs and the law. I don't care what the police do to try to reverse things, it just ain't going to happen. The onus is on the blacks, NOT the police.

    So ..... since inner-city blacks will never change their lives and will only get more racist (as if that were possible), we are all in this for the long haul. Arm yourselves.
    Last edited by DerBiermeister; 11-27-2014 at 11:27 AM.
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  5. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Old SF Guy View Post
    But today most blacks are taught by their families and communities from birth that cops are racists and hate them...so they hate white cops right back...it is racism on their part and they openly proclaim that hatred but no one calls them on it publicly.
    SF, I watched this very thing last night regarding the shooting in Cleveland. There was a civic leader, pastor, something like that, who was talking about the shooting, white police, black people and he said "I tell these kids all the time not to do this sort of thing because white police officers will kill you."

    Because they will KILL YOU. BECAUSE they will kill you. Not BECAUSE what you are doing is wrong, or causes fear or apprehension by the public, not BECAUSE your parents should have taught you better, not BECAUSE you have a duty as a citizen of this community to follow the rules and be productive, but BECAUSE they will KILL YOU. Because you are black, and THEY are WHITE.

    These people are TEACHING their children from the onset of life, to 1. Hate and fear white people, and 2. Hate and fear police officers. And for no other reason than 1. They are white and, 2. And they are Police Officers. They are not teaching their children to be respectful, to be law abiding, to be productive. They are teaching them "Don't get caught or you will die". They perpetuate fear, contempt and distrust. If I taught this "principle" to my children about "Black People", I would be considered a racist.

    I am going to say this; If you are not a criminal, if you are not committing crime, if you are generally minding your own business, if you are not disturbing, harassing or unnecessarily bothering others, YOU WILL PROBABLY NEVER HAVE CAUSE TO EVER MEET A POLICE OFFICER over anything more than a traffic citation, let alone have your rights violated, your ass kicked or shot and killed by one.

    Could it happen? Sure. There are bad cops out there, and now, thanks to social media and a camera in every phone, they are slowly and surely being rooted out (NY Deputy and the slapping incident for example). And there is a difference in being "emotionally uncomfortable" caused by a cop with the social skills of a badger, and "physically in danger" because of an over zealous cop with an inferiority complex that uses a badge and gun as compensation.

    These communities are doing it to themselves. And THEY need to change their way of thinking. Not us. The rest of us (white, brown, yellow, red) get along fine for the most part and when we, or one of "our kind" f's up and gets what we have coming to us, we generally say "That's what you get for being a dumb ass." and we move along.

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Sir Robert Peel, Father of Modern Policing-quote-truth-will-always-truth-regardless-lack-understanding-disbelief-ignorance-w-cl.jpg  


  6. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ripon View Post
    Our nation has subscribed to a philosophy of "more" education is necessary for professions than I agree with. I have students in our academy with bachelors degrees and they are often the worst students because they "know" it all. I have advocated that a city which employs a cop costing $150,000 a year (cost not pay) would be better off paying 20 people $7,500 each a year (cost not full pay) to take care of their block and back up the next block over.
    Sounds like a good plan on the cop manpower idea. More money is supposedly now being spent on private security than on public law enforcement. Dont see the trend changing anytime soon.

  7. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigdogbuc View Post
    I am going to say this; If you are not a criminal, if you are not committing crime, if you are generally minding your own business, if you are not disturbing, harassing or unnecessarily bothering others, YOU WILL PROBABLY NEVER HAVE CAUSE TO EVER MEET A POLICE OFFICER over anything more than a traffic citation, let alone have your rights violated, your ass kicked or shot and killed by one.
    Sorry, but I am a law abiding citizen and I have had too many experiences with bad cops to agree and I am white, so I can't even blame race. Most of the traffic stops I have experienced have been totally unprofessional as well.

    Here in NY we had a case last week where a cop shot a guy in a stairwell in an apartment building. The guy had done nothing wrong. He just happened to enter the stairwell at the wrong moment. The police are describing it as an "accidental discharge". Once you take a gun out of the holster, it isn't an accident.

    Sounds to me like that pastor is trying to keep these kids from getting killed.

    I feel we are at a point where every cop needs a body camera. Where they have been put in use violence both toward and by cops is way down.

  8. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Diver View Post
    Sorry, but I am a law abiding citizen and I have had too many experiences with bad cops to agree and I am white, so I can't even blame race. Most of the traffic stops I have experienced have been totally unprofessional as well.

    Here in NY we had a case last week where a cop shot a guy in a stairwell in an apartment building. The guy had done nothing wrong. He just happened to enter the stairwell at the wrong moment. The police are describing it as an "accidental discharge". Once you take a gun out of the holster, it isn't an accident.

    Sounds to me like that pastor is trying to keep these kids from getting killed.

    I feel we are at a point where every cop needs a body camera. Where they have been put in use violence both toward and by cops is way down.
    I never said there isn't room for improvement, like mentioning having the personality of a Badger. There are lots of cops who are just plain jerks. I know that when I was one, if you wanted act like an a-hole, I treated you like one. Just like I do in everyday life. Otherwise, I tried to make the situation as positive as I could and treated you like a human being.

    If you don't want to have unprofessional traffic stops it's easy...stop doing things to get pulled over. Now I know you'll say you didn't anything to get pulled over, just like most people. But I ask this, and I'm sure I already know your answer, but I'll ask anyway; "What is YOUR attitude like when you get pulled over?

    If it's anything like many of your posts on the forum, I can almost guess it's pretty antagonistic. And you will receive a like response. What most people don't understand is this; a cop is not going to hold court on the side of the road. Whether or not YOU agree with why you were pulled over or the ticket you were issued, you're preaching to the choir. THEY, right or wrong, felt you needed to be pulled over or have a ticket written. That is why you talk to the judge. That is why we have them. I deal with the same thing with my students when I issue them a ticket. I did it because I felt, at the time, a ticket was justified, and there is nothing you are going to say to me to change my mind...fill out the form to contest the ticket (that I created) and go talk to the Assistant Principal about it. It's THEIR decision. I've already made mine.

    I am all for questioning authority. But you have to question authority to the right people, in the right way. I agree with you that the stairwell incident was not an "accidental discharge". It was a scared cop who has no business being a cop and I hope that he is no longer allowed to be one and that he receives justice for his actions, no matter how "unintentional" they may have been. That young man is dead for NO GOOD REASON.

    As far as the pastor, yes, he is trying to keep kids from getting killed. But teach them personal responsibility, morals, making positive choices, getting an education. But you don't teach them hate.

    As for body cameras...do you personally have an idea how much they cost? It's prohibitive for many departments. And in some states, hopefully all, but I know in mine, that stuff is a matter of public record. And retrieving, editing, redacting info on them (for privacy purposes) is impossible. Our departments just found that out when the Public Records Request hit. 1000's and 1000's of hours of video. It can take hours to edit just a couple minutes of video to meet the privacy laws protecting innocent people (obscuring their identity, obscuring license plates etc.).

    Someone has to watch EVERY second of that video, determine what needs edited, then edit it. A work year is typically 2000 hours. 8 hours a day, 5 days a week, 50 weeks out of the year. Just to review whats already there, not including whats currently being collected. 10,000 hours of video would take one person 5 years, JUST TO WATCH. No editing, just to watch.

    It would take 10 people 6 months. It would cost millions upon millions of taxpayer dollars, just in wages and benefits, to comply with a request for a guy that wants nothing more than to post these videos on YouTube.

    My local departments are talking now, of shedding the cameras because they can't comply with the Public Records requests regarding their use.

    And yes, you are correct, incidents are way down, where camera's are used. But there are implications with their use that you don't understand. Hopefully, I have pointed those out.

  9. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Old SF Guy View Post
    I both agree and disagree with some of what you have written. I think the LEO issues are from well over a century ago. Look at the history of cops in NY in the early gang wars period and even before in the 1800's dealing with the influx of immigrants and the hatred of irish, etc. All the way into the south during the civil rights strife. But today most blacks are taught by their families and communities from birth that cops are racists and hate them...so they hate white cops right back...it is racism on their part and they openly proclaim that hatred but no one calls them on it publicly. No matter how well police behave these days they will always be hated because it fits their cause and desire to continue to be handed things and coddled by the govt. The black leaders know this and propagate it. Obama knows this and wants to expand it on. . Mjjjjnn.k mexicans so that the elite among them gain power...they do not care. About their own people.
    Well, I'm white. I was not brought up to hate cops. My experiences have taught me not to trust them. My experiences have been mild compared to what many blacks go through.

    If cops actually followed the rules expressed at the beginning of this thread, my experiences would have been very different, and I'm sure the experiences of many blacks would be different.

  10. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Diver View Post
    Most of the traffic stops I have experienced have been totally unprofessional as well.
    Then I can only assume you have an attitude that is telegraphed in a big way.

    I am 71 years old and in my life, I have been pulled over more times than I'd like to admit. NOT once in all those years was the LEO unprofessional -- not once. And I also will admit that in every single case, I deserved to be pulled over because I was breaking some traffic law -- usually driving a bit over what they will allow. I've never been ticketed for "reckless".

    Because I always know I was in the wrong, I never give the cops any guff, in fact I try to be a pleasant as I can be under the circumstances. I'm not sure how much of a role that plays but I am going to say that at least half the time, I have received warnings instead of tickets. There was one week about 5 years ago, when I was stopped 3 times. All 3 times I just got a warning. One of the reasons was because the cop had run out of paper tickets, but that was still a very fortunate week for me. EVERY single time, whether I get a warning or a ticket, I make an oath to myself to pay more attention to my driving. And I do obey the laws probably 95% of the time. It's that 5% that has me day-dreaming, or whatever and when I see the blue lights in my rearview mirror -- I look down at the speedometer and say -- "Oh shit".

    One thing I have learned over the years though -- and that is that on high volume interstate travel, it is damn stressful on your body, especially the older you get. But if you make a conscious effort to stay mostly in the right lane and drive responsibly, much of that stress is greatly reduced.
    bigwheel, ntxwheels, Ripon and 2 others like this.
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  11. #20
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    Yes, you are 100% correct that taking it to the right lane and at a slow pace is so much better for the body! I take driving very seriously, and am very good at it. That doesn't mean I have to drive like there is always an emergency, and the stress level is kept at a really nice level when I do five below the speed limit. Besides, I can better observe the untrained idjits and laugh at them when I am rolling slower. After all, laughter eases stress, too.
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