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My new home and solar

This is a discussion on My new home and solar within the General Talk forums, part of the General Discussion category; Some of you may or may not know I am in the market for a new home (first home actually). So I have found one ...

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Thread: My new home and solar

  1. #1
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    My new home and solar

    Some of you may or may not know I am in the market for a new home (first home actually). So I have found one I like BUT it has solar. I dont have a problem with solar, I actually like the idea. My problem is I would have to take over the payments for the solar.

    On top of my mortgage I would have to pay $144. a month for 14 years, which figures out to $24,192. I dont know how much has been paid off so far but I'd be on the hook for the 24k.

    Not sure how it is in other places but here in CA when you sell a home with solar you have to get the buyer to agree to take over the solar loan (for the record this is something separate from the home loan).

    So I guess my question is twofold.

    1. Does 24k sound reasonable and will I make it back with little to no utility bill.

    2. What should I know, both good/bad, about having solar. I know practically nothing about solar so speak slowly.

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  2. #2
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    Sasquatch: Three months ago I did a detailed analysis for my son and his wife to spend $35,000 for a Grid Tie Only system.

    By training I am a CPA, Computer Systems Analyst and a Paralegal. My specialty was business analysis and turnarounds. I spent a lot of time building spreadsheets to forecast the financial future of decisions. I share this to tell you that I am not new at doing a mathematical projections/analysis.

    My advice to them was that to project out 30 years of future power costs in today's world of financial fraud was impossible. I could not advise them that in 30 years they would recover their investments, especially factoring in damaged equipment, added insurance costs, unknown repair rates, Value of the dollar changing and crazy interest rates, etc.

    Instead I convinced them to invest in silver because that could be calculated out and gave a much GREATER return on investment than just hoping to get your original solar investment back.

    So instead they drew out $45,000 from a pension fund, used some to pay taxes and penalties to IRS and the balance was invested in silver. This should yield them $2 to $4 Million on the backside of the financial reset, whatever it is going to be.

    And to my surprise, they added to the solar system equipment and installed a $50,000 Grid Tied system with a Tesla battery back-up system in the event of the grid going down.

    In your case the Cash Flow Projection is even more difficult when you factor in the age of the system, higher repair frequencies and lower power production due to older technology. You must realize that if it is grid-tied, as PGE(?) raises power rates so too will they raise the "Buy Back rate" they will charge you for nighttime power.

    So what does all this mean to you? If you are buying a grid tied system only, you are just tying up your purchasing power each year and gambling that that investment will never get you anywhere and instead will probably harm you. In other words there is no gain to be had but may be a loss in the long run. If you purchase the real estate I suggest you reduce the value of the Solar note by reducing the real estate purchase price or take back cash from the seller for the devalued solar system. Maybe you can use this cash to purchase silver!

    I hope this helps in some way. Best of luck to you.
    Last edited by jimcosta; 11-06-2019 at 02:35 PM.
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  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimcosta View Post
    Sasquatch: Three months ago I did a detailed analysis for my son and his wife to spend $35,000 for a Grid Tie Only system.

    By training I am a CPA, Computer Systems Analyst and a Paralegal. My specialty was business analysis and turnarounds. I spent a lot of time building spreadsheets to forecast the financial future of decisions. I share this to tell you that I am not new at doing a mathematical projections/analysis.

    My advice to them was that to project out 30 years of future power costs in today's world of financial fraud was impossible. I could not advise them that in 30 years they would recover their investments, especially factoring in damaged equipment, added insurance costs, unknown repair rates, Value of the dollar changing and crazy interest rates, etc.

    Instead I convinced them to invest in silver because that could be calculated out and gave a much GREATER return on investment than just hoping to get your original solar investment back.

    So instead they drew out $45,000 from a pension fund, used some to pay taxes and penalties to IRS and the balance was invested in silver. This should yield them $2 to $4 Million on the backside of the financial reset, whatever it is going to be.

    And to my surprise, they added to the solar system equipment and installed a $50,000 Grid Tied system with a Tesla battery back-up system in the event of the grid going down.

    In your case the Cash Flow Projection is even more difficult when you factor in the age of the system, higher repair frequencies and lower power production due to older technology. You must realize that if it is grid-tied, as PGE(?) raises power rates so too will they raise the "Buy Back rate" they will charge you for nighttime power.

    So what does all this mean to you? If you are buying a grid tied system only, you are just tying up your purchasing power each year and gambling that that investment will never get you anywhere and instead will probably harm you. In other words there is no gain to be had but may be a loss in the long run. If you purchase the real estate I suggest you reduce the value of the Solar note by reducing the real estate purchase price or take back cash from the seller for the devalued solar system. Maybe you can use this cash to purchase silver!

    I hope this helps in some way. Best of luck to you.
    Appreciate the detailed feedback. Thanks for taking the time to learn me something.

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  5. #4
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    Only problem with long term investment in technology is in 3-5 years it's obsolete. In a couple more years all the parts are gone and you have to reinvest and upgrade when something fails. Don't forget to figure that unknown into it.

    I'd tell them to take the solar off cause your not interested in their outdated system. Maybe offer to take it for free if they don't want to remove but I wouldn't pay extra for it.
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  6. #5
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    What is it going to cost you to repair the system. It most likely will fail. Second when it does fail CA will likely require you to update .
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    @Sasquatch

    There is no way in hell I would have a grid tie solar system in California or any other state for that matter. You cannot get power when the grid goes down so why do it? Plus, with the regulatory environment why set yourself up for another layer of monitoring by an outside agency?

    Whats to keep the power company from jacking up the rates that you pay them and lowering the rates that they pay you?

    The only good solar is one that has a battery system to power everything and a generator to back up charging the batteries in case of lack of sunshine.

    Grid Tie systems make no sense to me.

  8. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimcosta View Post
    Sasquatch: Three months ago I did a detailed analysis for my son and his wife to spend $35,000 for a Grid Tie Only system.

    By training I am a CPA, Computer Systems Analyst and a Paralegal. My specialty was business analysis and turnarounds. I spent a lot of time building spreadsheets to forecast the financial future of decisions. I share this to tell you that I am not new at doing a mathematical projections/analysis.

    My advice to them was that to project out 30 years of future power costs in today's world of financial fraud was impossible. I could not advise them that in 30 years they would recover their investments, especially factoring in damaged equipment, added insurance costs, unknown repair rates, Value of the dollar changing and crazy interest rates, etc.

    Instead I convinced them to invest in silver because that could be calculated out and gave a much GREATER return on investment than just hoping to get your original solar investment back.

    So instead they drew out $45,000 from a pension fund, used some to pay taxes and penalties to IRS and the balance was invested in silver. This should yield them $2 to $4 Million on the backside of the financial reset, whatever it is going to be.

    And to my surprise, they added to the solar system equipment and installed a $50,000 Grid Tied system with a Tesla battery back-up system in the event of the grid going down.

    In your case the Cash Flow Projection is even more difficult when you factor in the age of the system, higher repair frequencies and lower power production due to older technology. You must realize that if it is grid-tied, as PGE(?) raises power rates so too will they raise the "Buy Back rate" they will charge you for nighttime power.

    So what does all this mean to you? If you are buying a grid tied system only, you are just tying up your purchasing power each year and gambling that that investment will never get you anywhere and instead will probably harm you. In other words there is no gain to be had but may be a loss in the long run. If you purchase the real estate I suggest you reduce the value of the Solar note by reducing the real estate purchase price or take back cash from the seller for the devalued solar system. Maybe you can use this cash to purchase silver!

    I hope this helps in some way. Best of luck to you.
    Great thread right here. I was pretty set to look into solar for our little crib house facing South with big trees. It was a deal killer accoridng to the guy I asked about it.

  9. #8
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    Squatch me boy -

    When we bult M.T. Acres I desperately wanted to build it with at least a solar backup system. We had two "consultants" (salesmen) come out and give us an estimate. One gave us an estimate for 15 panels @ 250 watts each with an inverter and the circuitry that would allow us to be both grid tied and not grid tied. The other gave us an estimate for 18 panels @ 250 watts and the exact same inverter and circuitry. (Important note: initially, we planned on connecting NO batteries to the system, so it would be useless without grid power, but both gave us the option of adding batteries as the cash flow allowed).

    One came in at around 36K, the other around 38K. I do not recall which was which, but both were parts and labor and everything. Then we asked about batteries... Batteries are crazy expensive. By the time we bought the batteries for a 48V system and the charge controller and other assorted crap we needed to make it work, it would have amounted to another 10K.

    The deal breaker was when I asked how long do these components last. They both told me an inverter lasts about 8 years on average. (That is about an 8K expense). Batteries about 5 years. They did not give us a timeframe on the solar panels, but they did say the solar panels do degrade in efficiency every year.

    Given that my electricity expense for grid power from my local dirty coal plant is about $70 per month with a $200 co-op rebate at the end of the year, there is no way I can afford to go solar.
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  10. #9
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    Solar is incredibly expensive for what you get. If you are looking at solar as a hobby or as an expensive ‘back-up’, then I would say to go for it. In the situation you describe, I would run away. You are looking at very little upside and a great many downsides. And your only guarantee is that monthly payment you gotta make every month for 14 years.
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  11. #10
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    Living in CA you have other things to consider. CA can and will change requirements at will. It will not be long and anyone with solar will have to pay an extra tax to support the power company they will own. Wisconsin passed a law sticking a huge reg fee on hybrid cars now because they don't use enough gas. Even if your Hybrid does not get fuel mileage any better than many non hybrid cars you still pay. Bet it will happen if you have solar.
    Chiefster23, Inor and Sasquatch like this.
    New life as a house husband, major shift in duties.

    Karl Marx said, "Destroy their culture, rewrite their history. Ruin their art and literature, and defame their heroes, by offering fabrications to scandalize that which they considered good.
    After reading this Obama said I am on it.

 

 
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