Let's Talk About PTSD Fraud

Welcome to the Prepper Forum / Survivalist Forum.

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed.

Let's Talk About PTSD Fraud

This is a discussion on Let's Talk About PTSD Fraud within the General Talk forums, part of the General Discussion category; I’m a 25 year Army Veteran with 7 years and 3 months (cumulative) in combat zones. I have seen some stuff. Others have seen MORE ...

Page 1 of 7 1 2 3 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 61
Like Tree145Likes

Thread: Let's Talk About PTSD Fraud

  1. #1
    Jem
    Jem is offline
    Junior Member


    Join Date
    Mar 2019
    Location
    Alabama
    Posts
    22

    Let's Talk About PTSD Fraud

    I’m a 25 year Army Veteran with 7 years and 3 months (cumulative) in combat zones. I have seen some stuff. Others have seen MORE stuff. Most haven’t seen ANYTHING. Don’t get me wrong – There are some veterans who are MESSED UP. But like myself, the vast majority are not. So why are 32% of Iraq and Afghanistan veterans getting disability checks for PTSD? Because its free money. They have their lips wrapped firmly around the government tit and are sucking for all they’re worth - just like the rest of the food stamp/welfare freeloaders in this country. And that’s rights where the government wants them – dependent.

    Now I can hear you all saying “but I really AM messed up.”, or “My cousin Bob really DOES have PTSD.” Those of you that served know the score. I can name off 30 people that I KNOW who are currently collecting PTSD disability money, and they never once left the safety and security of the FOB. Conversely, in all my years, I can personally think of only three people who truly have shellshock/battle fatigue/PTSD, and two of them DENY it and aren’t getting an ounce of money or help. The other one suck-started his .45 about four years ago.

    There are a multitude of ways for veterans to justify selling their souls for these few meager pieces of silver. A) They know they don’t have PTSD, but think that they are owed MORE for their service than they would otherwise get. B) They’re just dumb enough to believe the brainwashing about how messed up they’re going to be when the get back home. And C) They Know they don’t have PTSD but they have no problem lying and just plain sticking it to the taxpayers.

    What does all this mean going forward? In the wake of the recent shootings in El Paso and Dayton, all the politicians, including President Trump, are talking about “Mental Health.” The progressives are predictable talking about BANNING EVERY GUN. Everyone knows this isn’t going to happen, but they ARE going to get a bone this time. There’s just too much momentum not to. They MIGHT get a national high capacity magazine ban, but I don’t think so. EVERYONE can get behind “crazy people shouldn’t buy guns.” Sounds reasonable, right? Sounds responsible, right? Sounds just plain sensible! Here’s what makes this thinking dangerous and insidious:

    How are they [the ATF] going to decide if a person is crazy? For starters, mental health will be integrated into the NICS check. This means that your medical records will be thrust into what amounts to the public domain. Bye-bye HIPPA, and no more guns if you’re sucking on the PTSD tit. Alternately, you may be required to provide a “Certificate of Mental Wellness” at the point of purchase. This won’t be free! Your local head-shrink will likely have to get anywhere from $200 to $800 for this certification. A significant financial barrier to gun ownership. Couple this level of bureaucratic subjectivity with an ambiguous "Red Flag" law, and the county librarian will be able to bust into a veteran's home and take all their guns AND cocoa puff, and they'll get a medal and an ata-boy for their effort.

    I’m a fiscally conservative libertarian. I’m all for letting people believe what they want and doing what they want. But I just can not abide a cheater. Especially when it hits so close to home. I sell guns retail, and I will not sell a gun to a person I know is getting a PTSD check. Further, I point out to them that they are committing a felony by lying on block 11f of the 4473.

    Just some thoughts to chew on. Hope you’re all having a great day.

    James
    Last edited by Jem; 08-10-2019 at 12:12 PM.

  2. #2
    Junior Member


    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Posts
    14
    I agree 100%. This mental health issue concerns me more than any magazine limits, pistol grip, flash suppressor or fill in the blank tweaking of what is an assault rifle.

    Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk
    Denton and RedLion like this.

  3. #3
    Senior Member


    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Posts
    3,861
    Quote Originally Posted by Jem View Post
    For starters, mental health will be integrated into the NICS check. This means that your medical records will be thrust into what amounts to the public domain.
    This has concerned me for quite sometime. My concern is that the government will decide "who's crazy" with a broad stroke just to make it simple.

    For example, most of you know I am a hypochondriac. Oh, it's now called "health anxiety" to be politically correct, but what's a sloppy definition mean to a gun grabber? Won't they fall back on the basic premise that "any crazy is too much crazy"?

    And once the gun-grabbers find out how easy it is to disenfranchise anyone with a handgun, pretty soon your 4473 form will be shredded due to 'color blindness.'
    ...No matter where you are it's enemy territory...

  4. Remove Advertisements
    PrepperForums.net
    Advertisements
     

  5. #4
    Super Moderator


    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Location
    New Jersey
    Posts
    4,083
    @Jem : I'm in agreement with what you're saying. People shouldn't be 'sucking off the government teet', as you say. I don't doubt there are people like that out there who really don't need any help, but just want to 'doe-re-me' so fake-is me-doe

    However, 'fear of harm' as a result of PTSD is real and can ruin the lives of individuals and their families. They might not be the kinds of people who twitch or jump under tables at sound of loud noises, but still in all, they have real symptoms that are ruining their lives. They can explode and go off into tyrades over nothing at all--like the more severe forms of bipolar disorder. Don't ask me how I know (family member or two) So, I think we need to be careful about saying these people are few and far inbetween.

    Edit: there's a "new" drug out there for this:Ketamine. However it's not been approved by the FDA as yet. It's expensive but can work wonders, I am here to tell you. Hopefully once it's approved, the cost will go down.
    Last edited by Annie; 08-10-2019 at 01:13 PM.

  6. #5
    Senior Member


    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Location
    God's Country (aka Texas)
    Posts
    8,902
    Quote Originally Posted by Jem View Post
    I’m a 25 year Army Veteran with 7 years and 3 months (cumulative) in combat zones. I have seen some stuff. Others have seen MORE stuff. Most haven’t seen ANYTHING. Don’t get me wrong – There are some veterans who are MESSED UP. But like myself, the vast majority are not. So why are 32% of Iraq and Afghanistan veterans getting disability checks for PTSD? Because its free money. They have their lips wrapped firmly around the government tit and are sucking for all they’re worth - just like the rest of the food stamp/welfare freeloaders in this country. And that’s rights where the government wants them – dependent.

    Now I can hear you all saying “but I really AM messed up.”, or “My cousin Bob really DOES have PTSD.” Those of you that served know the score. I can name off 30 people that I KNOW who are currently collecting PTSD disability money, and they never once left the safety and security of the FOB. Conversely, in all my years, I can personally think of only three people who truly have shellshock/battle fatigue/PTSD, and two of them DENY it and aren’t getting an ounce of money or help. The other one suck-started his .45 about four years ago.

    There are a multitude of ways for veterans to justify selling their souls for these few meager pieces of silver. A) They know they don’t have PTSD, but think that they are owed MORE for their service than they would otherwise get. B) They’re just dumb enough to believe the brainwashing about how messed up they’re going to be when the get back home. And C) They Know they don’t have PTSD but they have no problem lying and just plain sticking it to the taxpayers.

    What does all this mean going forward? In the wake of the recent shootings in El Paso and Dayton, all the politicians, including President Trump, are talking about “Mental Health.” The progressives are predictable talking about BANNING EVERY GUN. Everyone knows this isn’t going to happen, but they ARE going to get a bone this time. There’s just too much momentum not to. They MIGHT get a national high capacity magazine ban, but I don’t think so. EVERYONE can get behind “crazy people shouldn’t buy guns.” Sounds reasonable, right? Sounds responsible, right? Sounds just plain sensible! Here’s what makes this thinking dangerous and insidious:

    How are they [the ATF] going to decide if a person is crazy? For starters, mental health will be integrated into the NICS check. This means that your medical records will be thrust into what amounts to the public domain. Bye-bye HIPPA, and no more guns if you’re sucking on the PTSD tit. Alternately, you may be required to provide a “Certificate of Mental Wellness” at the point of purchase. This won’t be free! Your local head-shrink will likely have to get anywhere from $200 to $800 for this certification. A significant financial barrier to gun ownership. Couple this level of bureaucratic subjectivity with an ambiguous "Red Flag" law, and the county librarian will be able to bust into a veteran's home and take all their guns AND cocoa puff, and they'll get a medal and an ata-boy for their effort.

    I’m a fiscally conservative libertarian. I’m all for letting people believe what they want and doing what they want. But I just can not abide a cheater. Especially when it hits so close to home. I sell guns retail, and I will not sell a gun to a person I know is getting a PTSD check. Further, I point out to them that they are committing a felony by lying on block 11f of the 4473.

    Just some thoughts to chew on. Hope you’re all having a great day.

    James
    Good narrative. Thanks for sharing. We recently had a young family friend pass after a long slow death with some variant ALS due to huffing smoke off the burn pits in Iraq or the anthrax vaccine..or perhaps a combo of the two. Leads me to think some cases of PTSD might also be related to the exotic vaccines as oppoed to up close blood and guts. Chum from the sports grill works for a big Construction Company that builds small outpatient VA clinics all over the place..but highly conentrated in S. Texas for some reason. He says they are called "nut huts." The young vet shows up with insomnia or other complaints and they get them hooked on psycho drugs and take away their 2 A. freedoms. It just dont seem right. Back to PTSD..I cant think of many old cops who dont have a version of it...but they are too smart to tell anybody. lol.
    Denton likes this.

  7. #6
    Senior Member


    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    Posts
    1,105
    Quote Originally Posted by Jem View Post
    I’m a 25 year Army Veteran with 7 years and 3 months (cumulative) in combat zones. I have seen some stuff. Others have seen MORE stuff. Most haven’t seen ANYTHING. Don’t get me wrong – There are some veterans who are MESSED UP. But like myself, the vast majority are not. So why are 32% of Iraq and Afghanistan veterans getting disability checks for PTSD? Because its free money. They have their lips wrapped firmly around the government tit and are sucking for all they’re worth - just like the rest of the food stamp/welfare freeloaders in this country. And that’s rights where the government wants them – dependent.

    Now I can hear you all saying “but I really AM messed up.”, or “My cousin Bob really DOES have PTSD.” Those of you that served know the score. I can name off 30 people that I KNOW who are currently collecting PTSD disability money, and they never once left the safety and security of the FOB. Conversely, in all my years, I can personally think of only three people who truly have shellshock/battle fatigue/PTSD, and two of them DENY it and aren’t getting an ounce of money or help. The other one suck-started his .45 about four years ago.

    There are a multitude of ways for veterans to justify selling their souls for these few meager pieces of silver. A) They know they don’t have PTSD, but think that they are owed MORE for their service than they would otherwise get. B) They’re just dumb enough to believe the brainwashing about how messed up they’re going to be when the get back home. And C) They Know they don’t have PTSD but they have no problem lying and just plain sticking it to the taxpayers.

    What does all this mean going forward? In the wake of the recent shootings in El Paso and Dayton, all the politicians, including President Trump, are talking about “Mental Health.” The progressives are predictable talking about BANNING EVERY GUN. Everyone knows this isn’t going to happen, but they ARE going to get a bone this time. There’s just too much momentum not to. They MIGHT get a national high capacity magazine ban, but I don’t think so. EVERYONE can get behind “crazy people shouldn’t buy guns.” Sounds reasonable, right? Sounds responsible, right? Sounds just plain sensible! Here’s what makes this thinking dangerous and insidious:

    How are they [the ATF] going to decide if a person is crazy? For starters, mental health will be integrated into the NICS check. This means that your medical records will be thrust into what amounts to the public domain. Bye-bye HIPPA, and no more guns if you’re sucking on the PTSD tit. Alternately, you may be required to provide a “Certificate of Mental Wellness” at the point of purchase. This won’t be free! Your local head-shrink will likely have to get anywhere from $200 to $800 for this certification. A significant financial barrier to gun ownership. Couple this level of bureaucratic subjectivity with an ambiguous "Red Flag" law, and the county librarian will be able to bust into a veteran's home and take all their guns AND cocoa puff, and they'll get a medal and an ata-boy for their effort.

    I’m a fiscally conservative libertarian. I’m all for letting people believe what they want and doing what they want. But I just can not abide a cheater. Especially when it hits so close to home. I sell guns retail, and I will not sell a gun to a person I know is getting a PTSD check. Further, I point out to them that they are committing a felony by lying on block 11f of the 4473.

    Just some thoughts to chew on. Hope you’re all having a great day.

    James
    In my opinion, if you really only know three ex-military persons with PTSD, then you are either not really a 25 year Army veteran, had zero friends in the Army, or are so totally clueless as to be useless in the field. Now, none of that means that there is not fraud in the system or that people with PTSD should necessarily get benefits because of it. PTSD is a very real phenomenon, and probably most soldiers who saw actual combat has some degree of it. Which does not make them entitled to extra compensation, necessarily. War is a part of human life. It just is.

  8. #7
    Member


    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Posts
    53
    Main problem is with big government employees trying to grow the government. My PTSD story: I served in the Army and got out in 1985 at the rank of CW2. Thirty years later I'm in the unemployment office filing for unemployment and am sat down across from a "VA Specialist".
    He's shocked that I haven't been rated by the VA for disabilities I incurred in service. So, he's filling out a referral form and asked me 3 to 4 different ways about what possible terrible things I've seen, bad service related dreams, emotional triggers that might be service related. Comes right out and tells me he is trying to set me up for PTSD benefits.
    By the way, no military conflicts were occurring while I was in and I served most of my time in Hawaii as a UH-1 pilot. Somebody had to do the tough jobs. Yes, thank you for my service , it was hell. I do get benefits for a real injury, I can't hear worth a damn anymore.
    Last edited by gyro_cfi; 08-10-2019 at 01:43 PM.
    Denton, bigwheel and stevekozak like this.

  9. #8
    Jem
    Jem is offline
    Junior Member


    Join Date
    Mar 2019
    Location
    Alabama
    Posts
    22
    Annie - I knew that this post would be touchy, and maybe even inflammatory. I absolutely acknowledge that PTSD is real, and can take many forms. I apologize for the angst I caused you personally, but not for my broader generalizations. Also, I wished I had used the less vulgar word "teet." I should have known better, having grown up on a dairy farm.
    Denton, jimb1972 and Annie like this.

  10. #9
    Super Moderator


    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Posts
    20,286
    Quote Originally Posted by stevekozak View Post
    In my opinion, if you really only know three ex-military persons with PTSD, then you are either not really a 25 year Army veteran, had zero friends in the Army, or are so totally clueless as to be useless in the field. Now, none of that means that there is not fraud in the system or that people with PTSD should necessarily get benefits because of it. PTSD is a very real phenomenon, and probably most soldiers who saw actual combat has some degree of it. Which does not make them entitled to extra compensation, necessarily. War is a part of human life. It just is.
    First, I know Jem, personally. I'm not going into his background as I don't remember him doing it, but he is the real deal.

    I've seen Air Force reservists come back from a three-month deployment to Afghanistan and claim PTSD. They never left the airfield that was far removed from fighting. They were just looking for the money.
    Over half of the people with whom I work are vets. Several are drawing the "crazy check," as it is called. A handful is "PTSD," while the rest learned from them how to scam the system. Many of the scammers were warned by me that they'll be on a list that will cause them to lose their weapons. To a man, I was told that the certainty of the check was worth the possibility of losing their weapons.
    Jem and I live in a veteran-heavy population. We have a large pool from which to determine our thoughts.
    Hidden Content
    "Reality is almost always wrong."
    Dr. Gregory House

  11. #10
    Senior Member


    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Location
    God's Country (aka Texas)
    Posts
    8,902
    Quote Originally Posted by Denton View Post
    First, I know Jem, personally. I'm not going into his background as I don't remember him doing it, but he is the real deal.

    I've seen Air Force reservists come back from a three-month deployment to Afghanistan and claim PTSD. They never left the airfield that was far removed from fighting. They were just looking for the money.
    Over half of the people with whom I work are vets. Several are drawing the "crazy check," as it is called. A handful is "PTSD," while the rest learned from them how to scam the system. Many of the scammers were warned by me that they'll be on a list that will cause them to lose their weapons. To a man, I was told that the certainty of the check was worth the possibility of losing their weapons.
    Jem and I live in a veteran-heavy population. We have a large pool from which to determine our thoughts.
    One of my old pals was a Viet Nam Vet and PTSD sufferer. He was drawing some kinda check but wanted a bigger one...which he said came from convincing them he was fully crazy. Well they gave him the big check and thats when he lost his guns. Then the idiot claimed it was my fault. He was crazy. He didnt get that way in battle...some of his fellow jyrenes did not like his attitude and nearly stomped him to death in the barracks.
    stevekozak and Denton like this.

 

 
Page 1 of 7 1 2 3 ... LastLast

Sponsored Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Back to Top