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Rights and Liberties

This is a discussion on Rights and Liberties within the General Talk forums, part of the General Discussion category; Originally Posted by Back Pack Hack There's plenty of similar cases to his. And stopping at a BP checkpoint isn't a terry stop. Asking about ...

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Thread: Rights and Liberties

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Back Pack Hack View Post
    There's plenty of similar cases to his. And stopping at a BP checkpoint isn't a terry stop. Asking about one's citizenship is not the same as physically frisking them for weapons.

    ETA: And while 70% of the population live within that 100-mile zone, probably 98% of the population doesn't know what rights and liberties truly are.
    There are plenty of cases similar to his, and all end up with the same outcome, they are either released or they are sent to secondary for further questions at which point you are prolonging your own interview and subjecting yourself to being detained and frisked under "reasonable suspicion". A CBP checkpoint is a "Terry Stop" as it is an investigatory stop that involves a brief detainment to determine any criminal activity. We can use Hibel if you think that it fits better, which requires you to Identify yourself to police.

    I agree, asking one's citizenship is not the same as physically checking them for weapons.

    Rights are limiting by their very nature, you simply have the right to travel. Liberties/freedoms are not being impinged via an immigration checkpoint. Freedom of movement is limited by the right to travel. I'd bet an overwhelming majority of people know what their rights and liberties are.
    Last edited by Traxxas; 12-30-2018 at 05:03 PM.

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Traxxas View Post
    There are plenty of cases similar to his, and all end up with the same outcome, they are either released or they are sent to secondary for further questions at which point you are prolonging your own interview and subjecting yourself to being detained and frisked under "reasonable suspicion". A CBP checkpoint is a "Terry Stop" as it is an investigatory stop that involves a brief detainment to determine any criminal activity. We can use Hibel if you think that it fits better, which requires you to Identify yourself to police.

    I agree, asking one's citizenship is not the same as physically checking them for weapons .


    In other words, surrender your rights in exchange for your freedom.

    Nope, I don't accept that.
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  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slippy View Post
    Keeping non-citizens out of a sovereign nation is critical and no rights of the citizens are lost while liberty is maintained.
    Slippy for press secretary.
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  5. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Back Pack Hack View Post
    In other words, surrender your rights in exchange for your freedom.

    Nope, I don't accept that.
    What rights have you surrendered? Any "right", is by nature alone, limiting, as a right is not unlimited.

    Brief investigatory detentions during which an individual is not free to leave—frequently called
    “Terry” stops—constitute seizures subject to the Fourth Amendment’s reasonableness
    requirements.21 Based on reasonable suspicion of unlawful presence, a Border Patrol agent may
    briefly detain an individual for questioning.22 Information obtained through such questioning
    may provide a basis for more prolonged detention, a vehicle search, or the subsequent arrest of a
    noncitizen, all of which normally require consent or probable cause.23 However, an individual’s
    refusal to respond to questions during a Terry stop does not provide probable cause to arrest.24
    https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...VCia_a5ZZntenj
    Last edited by Traxxas; 12-30-2018 at 04:12 PM.

  6. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Traxxas View Post
    What rights have you surrendered?
    Well, duh! The right to be secure in my persons, houses, papers, and effects.... and the right against unreasonable searches and seizures.

    Yes, I agree they have the right to ask the question. But if I refuse to answer, I am automatically deemed a criminal. Sent to secondary, dogs sniff the car (and we all know 'false hits' are a thing), I'm threatened with violence against my person, I'm threatened with arrest, forcibly held for hours............

    Ever notice what happens when the stop sticks get thrown next to the tires of a true patriot at a checkpoint? All the other traffic gets waved through. Fook... if I wanted to bring in a truckload of illegals, that's all I'd need to do: Send a car in ahead of me and in they go.

    Personally, I'd love to see about 100 real Americans line up and all refuse to answer. It would clog 'em up for days.


    No.......... I do not agree with it. You might, but that's your right. But don't demand I give up mine because you want to give up yours.
    Last edited by Back Pack Hack; 12-30-2018 at 04:17 PM.
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  7. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Traxxas View Post
    So you don't agree with a SCOTUS approved legal Terry Stop? Funny how over 70% of the US population lives within 100 miles of the US border. Please don't link to the idiot preacher who lost his court case against the federal government regarding his 4A rights and Terry Stops along the southern border.
    Well Terry stop and frisk stuff applies anywhere..at least in Texas. Within so close to the border the rules tighten up and makes just about everything that breathes and moves subject to a search and colonoscopy..or used to be anyway. Wished somebody would articulate what is is yall are arguing about more precisely. It aint nice to get drove crazy this deep into the cocktail hour. Thanks.
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  8. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Back Pack Hack View Post
    Well, duh! The right to be secure in my persons, houses, papers, and effects.... and the right against unreasonable searches and seizures.

    Yes, I agree they have the right to ask the question. But if I refuse to answer, I am automatically treated like a criminal. Sent to secondary, dogs sniff the car (and we all know 'false hits' are a thing), I'm threatened with violence against my person, I'm threatened with arrest............


    No.......... I do not agree with it. You might, but that's your right. But don't demand I give up mine because you want to give up yours.
    An immigration checkpoint does none of those things. You are still considered innocent until proven guilty, secondary doesn't mean anything other than more questions, so unless you give them probable cause reasons, all you have to do is ask "am I are free to go". Feeling like you are being treated like a criminal doesn't take away any of your rights.

    I' haven't demanded anything of you, you have the right to do as you wish if stopped at an immigration checkpoint. Disclaimer: "your results may vary."

    You still haven't shown you have lost any right from the stop or immigration law or from a fence/wall being put into place.
    Last edited by Traxxas; 12-30-2018 at 04:25 PM.

  9. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Traxxas View Post
    ..........You still haven't shown you have lost any right from the stop or immigration law or from a fence/wall being put into place.
    I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you.

    When I refuse to answer, the BP agent should just let me go. I am under no legal obligation to answer at all. I have a 5A right to remain silent. If I refuse to answer, I'm sent to secondary or the stop sticks come out. Now I'm being detained absent suspicion of a crime. The longer I exercise my rights, the longer I'm unlawfully detained.

    If I continue to exercise my 5A right, CBP can (they have, you know) escalate it to property damage (smashing my windows), assault (forcibly removing me from my vehicle), kidnapping (forcibly dragging me inside)...............



    No. I do not agree with it. And yes, I AM losing my rights.
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  10. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Back Pack Hack View Post
    I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you.
    SMFH What you think and what reality actually is are 2 very different things. I see you are a disciple of Jimmy Wynn.

    Quote Originally Posted by Back Pack Hack View Post
    When I refuse to answer, the BP agent should just let me go. I am under no legal obligation to answer at all. I have a 5A right to remain silent. If I refuse to answer, I'm sent to secondary or the stop sticks come out. Now I'm being detained absent suspicion of a crime. The longer I exercise my rights, the longer I'm unlawfully detained.

    If I continue to exercise my 5A right, CBP can (they have, you know) escalate it to property damage (smashing my windows), assault (forcibly removing me from my vehicle), kidnapping (forcibly dragging me inside)...............



    No. I do not agree with it. And yes, I AM losing my rights.
    As I previously stated, all you have to ask is "am I free to leave", you can even ask them "under what condition am I being detained". The easiest thing is to simply state you are a Citizen when asked. LEO all have the right to determine who you are when stopped legally, they can detain you until they have ID'ed you (Hibel).

    Again, you claiming you are losing/have lost your rights doesn't show that you have.

    INA 287(a)(3) https://www.uscis.gov/ilink/docView/...-0-0-9505.html
    Last edited by Traxxas; 12-30-2018 at 05:06 PM.

  11. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Back Pack Hack View Post
    We've already lost the right / liberty to move freely around the country if you happen to be within 100 miles of a border or ocean. And that's without a wall. You get stopped, searched, detained, beat up, arrested, suffer property damage........

    correct - too many illegals attacking US citizens on US soil - closer you get to the border the more embodied they are >>>> your fantasy is an argument for the Wall ....

    if your fantasy was true >>>> how is sooooooooo many US citizen patriots sitting right on the border assisting these phantom boogie men stopping illegals breaking our Country's laws?
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