I'll expound more later, and @malcolm Reynolds I'll have statistics for you. Believe it or not, I'll have those demographics available. And that in itself is sad.
This is a discussion on Oliver North Blames Ritalin - Science Disagrees within the General Talk forums, part of the General Discussion category; Checking in... I never said the drugs were not part of the problem. Read closer. The acceptance of the drug usage is a larger issue....
I never said the drugs were not part of the problem.
Read closer. The acceptance of the drug usage is a larger issue.
I'll expound more later, and @malcolm Reynolds I'll have statistics for you. Believe it or not, I'll have those demographics available. And that in itself is sad.
Humans have always had pockets of crazies. Each one of us has the capacity to do these horrible things. The difference between those that do and those that don't is the ability to cope with life.
This is all a product of upbringing. If a child never develops healthy coping mechanisms, they can develop varying degrees of psychosis. Some turn to drugs, some turn to alcohol, some turn to sub-cultures that nurture whatever it is they feel connected with, and some turn to violence against themselves and/or against others.
As a society, we only ever seem to pay attention to the ones who hurt other people, and then look for similarities in that small group.
If we find Rx drug use in their past, we start to blame that, ignoring the fact that thousands upon thousands of other people are on the same medication and never hurt anyone.
It comes down to the individual. Something in these people is different, and the addition of these drugs doesn't provide the positive effects seen in other patients on the same regimen. I don't believe it is fair to blanket the drug as the culprit. I *do* believe we are too quick to prescribe drugs, however. We don't fully understand why certain drugs have such a negative effect, and how to best guess who will benefit and who will not when we apply them. We always hear the horror stories of those who had a negative result, but rarely hear about the countless others who benefited immensely from their use.
Like I said, it comes down to an ability to cope. There is no single quick-fix solution to this problem. It could have started when the child was 6 months old and never put down and left to cry until it decided to stop. It could have started at 3 years old when bed wetting was met with harsh punishment and being locked in a dark closet. It could have started in the early teens when puberty hit hard and there was nobody the child felt comfortable talking to about their awkwardness. Humans are a fickle bunch. We don't always figure it out on our own, and sadly, we don't always have someone there to teach us.
We don't even teach this fundamental human requirement in school. Of all places, where we teach sex education, how to bake a pie, how to fix a car, oh... and all that calculus you'll use everyday of your future, we fail to instill the basics of human interaction and self-reflection.
Yeah, I know... "it shouldn't be taught in schools, it should be taught in the home".
Have you seen the homes these kids are coming from? For most, it's not even a wonder how they never learned how to cope.
It's hard enough to get kids to listen to something important, but have you ever tried to tell a parent how they should teach their child? Mama bear gets quite the attitude.
I don't know a solution. I don't have the expertise to speak authoritatively on this. I just know what I see and reference what I've learned for myself.
We need to start teaching kids, at an early age, how to deal with life's problems. Stop rewarding everything. Stop pretending there are no losers. Stop reducing the penalties for failure. Stop ignoring our core differences. Start forcing kids to recognize their own strengths and weaknesses, and help them identify what they can improve on. Force them to at least TRY to figure it out for themselves first.
I do this to my kids regularly. They are reminded that life isn't fair at least once a week. I give them daily doses of the behavior I see in them so they learn what is good and what is bad about social interactions. I reward good behavior, but not with anything tangible. You don't get candy or ice cream because you pretended to be nice to your brother. I call it out, and tell them they did a good job, and that I want to see more of it. I don't let them get by with the bare minimum. They know what is expected of them, and they know the consequences for failure. They still throw their tantrums from time to time, but those are ignored. They don't get any interaction until they've calmed down and come to me in a better mood. This forces that coping development. They learn how to calm themselves and how to properly interact with others, even when they are upset about something. They know that negative behavior never leads to a reward or even a compromise.
I don't see this kind of treatment given to random kids I see in public. I see chaos. I see screen-lit faces of both parent and child. I see minimal interaction/communication. I see wild outbursts of screaming and destruction followed by a parent who refuses to punish the behavior. It's truly sad sometimes.
We all see this.
Both sides of the debate see this.
Yet somehow, we wonder why kids end up shooting other kids.
In the latest Santa Fe Texas shooting, the kid had just been rejected by the object of his affection.
His response was to bring a shotgun to school and annihilate her body to the point where her face as not recognizable, and then turn the weapons on the rest of the class.
Failure to cope...
Last edited by Kauboy; 05-22-2018 at 12:33 PM.
"Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." - H. L. Mencken
"Reality is almost always wrong."
Dr. Gregory House
Ritalin and the other drugs aren't the issue, the issue is doctors that write prescriptions to get people out of their offices. From giving people with a cold penicillin to giving kids that need some discipline Ritalin. The result is super bacteria that we can't fight and kids that are addicted to mind altering substances.
Sic Vis Pacem Para Bellum
I believe the problem is twofold. Both the drugs and bad parenting. Although, I think the bad parenting is the reason for the drugs. A lot of people these days want kids but dont want to be parents. So instead of taking the time it takes be a good parent they stick the kids on drugs to "even them out". And/or they let a smartphone and TV raise their kid(s).
Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
First you have to give up. First you have to know, not fear, know that someday you're going to die.
Using your criteria 1, 2, 3 I have the following:
When the criteria was plugged in, it kind of tells a lot about how single family homes have an effect. This was based on adolescents between 13-18, school year 2017-2018, 645 recorded.
But, I can manipulate those statistics with my new computer, and I'm no Wile E. Coyote. And if a moron like me can do it, so can the government or science.
But I also know what behaviors I observe. And let me state for the record, I'm trained in classic behavior modification, not the pushing of pills. So I see these kids both on and off the wonder drugs. I believe the drugs have a place, but that place is in moderation and supervision, not like M&Ms in a candy bowl at Halloween.
And they sure shouldn't be used to sedate an unruly child needing discipline because mammy and pappy (if either/or is even around) can't be bothered to get off Facebook or Instagram long enough to parent their child.
Oliver North is an idiot, trying to discredit my work. I did a book on the subject and have been trying to get people to help me get it published. North has the same info I'm leaving on this thread. It's long and even longer once you check the links, but well worth your time:
1 Children being diagnosed with ADD / ADHD and prescribed Ritalin
2 Older children (starting in their teens) being prescribed SSRIs and opioids
3 DFACS and Social Security are placing millions of children on drugs when it is not necessary nor medically appropriate
4 Early teens getting involved in “recreational drugs,” many after being hooked on legal drugs and advancing to hard core drugs like heroin and cocaine
5 As the teen moves into their 20s, they lose their insurance and have to get illegal drugs as they are now hard core drug addicts who must turn to illegal drugs to sustain their addiction
6 The taxpayers are picking up the tab for destroyed families and domestic disputes that take up many hours of time
7 Broken families and divorce devours our nation
8 Young (mostly white males) are committing the bulk of mass shootings and going through life without the skills to survive
9 People are racking up criminal records due to the simple fact they are now drug addicts — created by the government
10 We then send the mentally ill off to prison where their addictions and their propensity toward violence increases
Let’s walk through the typical scenario:
Jack and Jane get married, have a kid, but are emotionally and financially unprepared for the responsibility. They divorce. The child becomes a latch-key kid —
An alternate scenario, Jack and Jane stay married, they are either drug addicts, drunks, and / or having constant conflict in the home.
Under either scenario, their child (or children) grows up knowing either neglect or constant conflict and abuse in the home. Perhaps they have one parent and the father in most cases is absent. This leads the mothers to say their child is “hyperactive” or not able to pay attention in school. The doctors want to call this ADD / ADHD and they stick the child on Ritalin. There is no such disorder as ADD / ADHD but it gives doctors, DFACS, Social Security, etc. a reason to get people on legal drugs.
Teens most likely complain of anxiety / depression and are immediately given a prescription for SSRIs (psychotropic drugs like Paxil, Zoloft, Lexapro, Prozac, etc) This serves as a gateway for illegal drugs and pacifies the youth at the moment.
White males, who have cultural issues — neglect in the home, second / third generation drug use, broken homes and a society that glamorizes violence turn to violent video games and so forth. This manifests itself into anti-social behavior and sometimes it manifests itself into acts of violence up to and including mass shootings.
IF the teen survives up to a point, they find out how easy it is got get oipoids for pain. Many times it is legally obtained. But, by their mid 20s they are dropped from their parents insurance and have to find their fix in the illegal market.
IF they survive this stage, they become criminals (if that hasn’t happened already.) They don’t have an education, no job skills, no family support system, no initiative, no assets to draw from, no work ethic, and a criminal record. And if they don’t have the criminal record, that comes next.
The United States consumes over 80 percent of the world’s opioid supply:
"[I]In 2014, Nora Volkow, MD, director of the National Institute on Drug Abuse, submitted the following testimony to the U.S. Senate Caucus on International Narcotics Control:
"The number of prescriptions for opioids (like hydrocodone and oxycodone products) have escalated from around 76 million in 1991 to nearly 207 million in 2013, with the United States their biggest consumer globally, accounting for almost 100 percent of the world total for hydrocodone (e.g., Vicodin) and 81 percent for oxycodone."
A footnote reveals where Volkow got that information. It came from a 2008 report from the International Narcotics Control Board, which states:
“In 2008 the United States accounted for over 99 per cent of the global consumption of hydrocodone and 83 per cent of the global consumption of oxycodone.”
According to CNBC News:
“ Approximately 80 percent of the global opioid supply is consumed in the United States.”
According to one website, www.kff.org their figures were astounding. In 2016, 33,450 whites died due to opioid overdoses compared to 4374 black people and 3,440 Hispanics. This comes to a grand total 42,294 Americans who perished in a single year over oipoids! In a 2015 Washington Post news article, I found this quote:
“Non-Hispanic white Americans take prescription drugs at roughly twice the rate of Mexican Americans. Researchers offered no clear explanation but said the disparity "was not entirely attributable" to differences in insurance status.”
There are more Americans dying from opioid overdoses each year than are being killed by firearms. And virtually EVERY mass shooting is being done by political jihadists OR someone who is or has recently been under the care of a psychiatrist or psychologist AND almost all of the shooters are (or recently were) on a schedule of drugs called SSRIs.
According to one article on the subject:
“Psychiatrists generally will tell you that these people were mentally ill and they weren’t treated in time or didn’t get enough help to prevent the tragedy. However, Dr. Peter Breggin, who is a psychiatrist, stated that depression rarely leads to violence and that it’s only since the SSRI’s came on the market that such mass shootings have taken place.
In a study of thirty-one drugs that are disproportionately linked to reports of violence toward others, five of the top ten are antidepressants. These are Prozac, Paxil, Luvox, Effexor and Pristiq. Two other drugs that are for treating ADHD are also in the top ten which means these are being given to children who could then become violent. One could conclude from this study alone that antidepressants cause both suicidal thoughts and violent behavior. This is a prescription for mass shootings.”
Antidepressants Are a Prescription for Mass Shootings ? Citizens Commission on Human Rights, CCHR
See these sites as well:
Mass Shootings: The New Manifestation of an Ancient Phenomenon and their Link to Psychiatric Drugs
Many people beginning to see that there is no real disease or condition called ADD / ADHD:
So, we’re creating drug addicts when no such conditions exist and then we are not treating them. We’re putting them in prison:
“According to a new report from the Treatment Advocacy Center (TAC), a nonprofit advocacy organization, the United States has fully returned to the 18th-century model of incarcerating the mentally ill in correctional institutions rather than treating them in health care facilities like any other sick people. In 2012, there were roughly 356,268 inmates with severe mental illnesses in prisons and jails, while only 35,000 people with the same diseases were in state psychiatric hospitals.”
We talk a good game about punishing drug dealers — which is code for the illegal market. We never address the fact that we’re creating the drug users. Those people are needlessly taking “legal drugs.”
The quickest way to a government check (i.e. disability) is to feign some mental condition. Additionally, if you have an emotional disorder, Socialist Security demands that you take psychotropic drugs EVEN WHEN THEY ARE NOT WARRANTED as a prerequisite to getting a check. When people get called on to work for their food assistance debit card, MILLIONS of new drug addicts will suddenly be born. They are going to be exempted from the work for welfare proposals.
Moms think their children are special and need Ritalin, SSRIs, etc., etc. You may even have to get your kids on drugs to regain or maintain custody of them. What the children really need is a stable environment and a certain amount of attention. They need attentive parents, a healthy diet, adequate sleep, exercise, and mentally stimulating exercises.
Doctors have become complacent and oblivious to the problems. They prescribe drugs to patients that need group therapy, one on one therapy and their parents sent to parenting classes TAUGHT BY PEOPLE WHO KNOW THAT DRUGGING CHILDREN IS THE LAST OPTION. Nobody should be given drugs unless and until other treatment options have been exhausted — and then only under strict supervision.
While America is pretending to be concerned about mass shootings (particularly at schools) the only solutions they come up with are gun control. It makes you wonder why they haven’t gone after assault vans and trucks (they’re being used in mass killings.) The irony is, even if the anti-gunners had their programs fully in place nationwide it would not have prevented the mass shootings that have happened. Take Adam Lanza as an example: his mother was back ground checked, licensed, certified by the NRA, etc., etc. So were virtually all the other mass shooters you can name (other than maybe, and I say maybe) political jihadists. The parents already did what the left wants.
If the brakes fail on your car, do not suggest that the repair shop put in a new transmission. Fix the problem you have. Solve the drug problem, family issues and identify shooters before they act and get them the help they need right then and there and you will not have drug addicts by the millions and virtually no mass shootings.
Along these lines, it is sickening and disgusting that while children are dying due to mass shootings, law enforcement will go on camera and tell you that they don’t know why it’s happening and the only solution that is discussed is gun control. The lying and hypocrisy is disgusting and indefensible. We DO know who most of the mass shooters are going to be long before they act. I’ve personally identified SIXTEEN characteristics and once any child displays any eight of them they will commit an act of violence — possible a murder all the way up to a mass shooting — and it can be stopped without gun control and without jeopardizing the Constitution.
Putting people in prison over acts related to their drug use is idiotic as well. If the system is creating drug users, they need to be the ones rehabilitating them. Maybe that way they will think twice about forcing children onto legal drugs. Not only are ten times more mentally ill people in prison over drug crimes as compared to those being treated in mental institutions, most of those who go to prison are going to be recidivists. That means they will get out of prison and return again.
Doesn’t anyone want a solution to the drug problem? The opioid epidemic? Mass shootings? Recidivism in the prison population? Why can’t we put the attacks on Liberty, Freedom and infringements on unalienable Rights on the back burner and resolve this once and for all?
America was founded on certain foundational principles that our modern government and the citizenry have forgotten about or maybe never informed of. So, perhaps we cannot go back to the way things were, but we can use the following solutions to reign in drug use, broken families, mass shootings, prison recidivism, and generational welfarites. At one time, children belonged to a family — generally a mother and a father. Today, those children are wards of the state that have control over a child from the womb to the tomb.
Anyone who doubts this should spank their child’s back side with a belt and confining them to their bedroom without a cell phone, computer, games, etc. over a week-end for misbehaving. Since we’re dealing with generations of people that have been programmed the wrong way, we can only fix this by going back and cleaning up the mistakes.
As stated before, there is no such thing as ADD / ADHD. What there is amounts to a lack of parenting skills and the wrong agenda by government agencies. So, you immediately create a special agency in every county that is charged with over-seeing the new policies suggested herein and look for guidance counselors, DFACS / CPS workers, truant officers, etc. that accept the new agenda of not recommending nor prescribing drugs for any condition until all other avenues have been exhausted.
If you have a “hyperactive” child or one that you think is suffering anxiety / depression, you begin with group therapy. If, within a reasonable period the child does not respond, they go to one on one counseling. Additionally, there will be a county investigator, trained in both legal investigations, child / family abuse, drug abuse, etc. This investigator will do a background check on the parent (s) and determine if the parent (s) fit at risk categories:
A - A single parent
B - Has a criminal record
C- Is an alcoholic or drug addict
D - Gainfully employed
E - Whether or not police routinely visit the home for domestic issues
F - Providing a stable and clean home
G- Divorced, separated, living with relatives
H - How many children living in the home and their criminal record (if any)
You have to rule out the parents and siblings as being the problem before focusing on whether or not the child has a legitimate disorder. IF it is suspected that the parents need parenting classes, they will be so informed. And if they do not comply, the child will be taken from them and put into foster care. Then the parent can take the classes or lose custody. If the home environment is the problem, that is what you fix, not drugging the child.
1 - Every child, upon entering school is already identified by their Socialist Surveillance Number (sometimes erroneously referred to as a Social Security Number.) Use that to track the activity of those under 18 This new agency would be notified every time a criminal report was generated by any LEO organization or reprimand (i.e. suspension from school) government agency. As soon as three conditions are met (from the sixteen things all mass shooters have in common), an investigation is launched and the parents notified. This investigation follows the same path as those children who are being considered for drugs like Ritalin and ends with recommendations from the investigators. If a course of mental health is considered, the child must be seen by two psychologists that give separate opinions without the consultation of the other.
In addition, investigators would ask the parents for permission to do a drug test. The parents are free to say no but, they would be informed that they will be under more scrutiny so as to rule out the child’s home life as being the source of the problem.
2 - Anyone who wants to be put on psychotropic drugs must undergo an IQ test, drug test (for illegal substances), group therapy and then one on one counseling lasting over a period of no less than ninety days. A study would be done to make sure the child gets adequate sleep and exercise. The child’s diet and how many hours playing video games or visiting social media would be scrutinized
3 - A problem may be determined to be partly OR the entire fault of the parents and / or their home environment. If so, the parents may be required to take parenting classes or possibly lose custody of their children
4 - Those children who are deemed to have issues will be dealt with immediately. A family court may determine that a child be removed from the home, receive tutoring, have an ankle monitor and be required to keep up good grades, etc. for a set period of time
5 - State and local governments must rethink their views on putting those people 18 and under on Ritalin, SSRIs, oipoids, or other mind altering drugs.
SIXTEEN COMMONALITIES OF MASS SHOOTERS
1) MOST are white males between the ages of 18 and 40
2) Most come from a single parent home
3) Those who do live in a traditional mom and pop home are highly dysfunctional homes (parents are drug addicts, alcoholics and / or abusive
4) Mass shooters are obsessed with violence and spend inordinate amounts of time on the Internet on doing something connected with violence
5) Virtually ALL of them have been put on SSRIs
6) None of them were kept under supervised care or in a mental health facility when their propensity to violence was well known
7) A lot of them started out doing great in school and their grades began to drop dramatically
8) Most mass shooters have had the police called to their home numerous times for domestic issues
9) Mass shooters tend to be loners OR they have friends who are equally obsessed with violence
10) Many mass shooters have been suspended from school for something connected to threats and / or violence
11) Many mass shooters have killed small animals simply out of meanness
12) Many mass shooters self medicate and / or go off their medications
13) A lot of mass shooters mix illegal drugs with their legal drugs
14) Some mass shooters have been bullied and / or ridiculed by their peers in school
15) Some mass shooters were humiliated by being rejected when they ask someone out on a date
16) A few mass shooters have friends, but those friends to be much like themselves (think Columbine shooters) and they fit the above categories
If a child meets eight items on that list of commonalities, they will commit a violent act in their lifetime. Ironically, most of the time, EVERYONE who knows an at risk child recognizes it, but we do nothing. How many times AFTER a mass shooting do you hear people say they knew it was eventually going to happen?
Costs to Implement This Program
The costs to implement are so small, they should be of no consideration. The unruly in our society are costing many man hours as is. Let’s examine a typical case:
Nickolas Cruz, who killed 17 people in a school shooting in Florida, had the police at his house 29 times; he was constantly in trouble at school; he was suspended from school. When you look at all the man hours, we already have the people and the time. It’s just a matter of pulling DFACS /CPS workers, a couple of police officers, etc. from the county and putting them into an office that works directly on this problem.
Since parents who need parenting skills would have to attend training sessions, they would be charged $20.00 (twenty dollars) per parent / couple (whatever is applicable to the household) and that money would offset the cost of the person teaching the class. Schools have auditoriums and, in my case, the local courthouse (the GJAC building) has a “breezeway” that could easily accommodate forty people twice a week.
The costs are insignificant and it will actually SAVE money since the most unruly children are being addressed.
There is no criminal actions involved here; this is all civil so there are no constitutional objections from a criminal standpoint
No new powers are being given to the government so that cannot be a concern, If anything, this program would pre-empt the supposed need to pass Red Flag Laws:
In each county, this agency would need no more than a dozen people with no more than four specially trained professionals to teach parenting classes (sixteen people total in the most populous counties) and perhaps as few half a dozen total in smaller counties.
We will be dealing with the worst case scenarios first, allowing police, truant officers, and school counselors to concentrate their efforts in other areas.
The plan gets the government out of the drug business for the most part.
Over-all, later in the lives of these people, fewer will end up in prison and many more will be spared the scourge of becoming a drug addict at the hands of the government, doctors and ignorant parents
We will save lives
We will have fewer drug addicts and criminals
Tax dollars will be saved
Schools will be safer and we will have fewer disruptions
Let’s do this!
Last edited by The Resister; 05-22-2018 at 02:38 PM.
Thank you for posting your statistics.I believe this to be one of the biggest problems in Child Behavioral "disorders". It is a trust issue, or lack thereof.he Single Parent
Many times pedophiles will develop a close relationship with a single parent in order to get close to their children. Once inside the home, they have many opportunities to manipulate the children—using guilt, fear, and love to confuse the child. If the child's parent works, it offers the pedophile the private time needed to abuse the child.
Pedophilia is also something SO SHOCKING to the psyche that folks are often "unwilling" to notice the signs.
I have twice been the "bearer of bad news" to single parents.
Once it was a "kid" I worked with. His "baby momma" had custody of his preschool age child. She had a live in "boyfriend". As so often happens this young man did not have custody and only was able to see his son twice a month on weekends. He was telling me how his son was having problems with itching and "acting weird" in the genital area. I asked him about the kids living situation. After about 20 minutes of talking with him I told him to take the kid to a child psychologist and ask about child abuse symptoms. About a week later he comes back telling me how the boyfriend had been "messing" with his kid and the "F###ing WOMEN KNEW". It took about 9 months through the court but he now has full custody.
I think folks just dont wanna "see" something so horrible when it is right in front of them.
If children have odd mood or behavior changes fairly rapidly... SOMETHING aint right. All we gotta do is ASK the F###ing Question.
This also goes for folks that "assist" single parents. Daycare, Coaches, Teachers, Afterschool Programs.
WHO has access?
I think there are FAR more children "destroyed" by sexual abuse every week than will EVER be destroyed by a gun wielding classmate.
But nobody wants to talk about THAT.