Militarization of the Police - Page 13
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Militarization of the Police

This is a discussion on Militarization of the Police within the General Talk forums, part of the General Discussion category; As a military AND law enforcement guy, I can tell you that Police depts. have NOWHERE EVEN CLOSE to the firepower that the military has. ...

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Thread: Militarization of the Police

  1. #121
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    As a military AND law enforcement guy, I can tell you that Police depts. have NOWHERE EVEN CLOSE to the firepower that the military has. Police have small arms (or what the military considers small arms anyway) and maybe a helicopter (unarmed) and an armored vehicle or two. Automatic rifles aren't even a thing in the military unless you're rocking a dedicated crew served weapon. (Of note: the smallest non-crew served weapon that is full auto is the M249 SAW and we still usually had an assistant gunner to aid in barrel changing. I know because I was a SAW gunner) Standard issue M4 is a 3-round burst weapon...has been that way for 15 years after the GAU-5 (which I also carried) went away.

    I WISH the lower level departments had access to more powerful weapons. It's a cost efficiency trade off. When the lower level guys need more serious weapons, they usually have to call another agency to support (serve a high risk warrant, barricaded suspect, hostages, etc.) which quickly becomes an expensive proposition. Bad for the tax payers right? If the lowest level cops had the weapons, equipment, and training to handle the more intense stuff, it pays it forward to the upper level guys that no longer have to deal with the risky stuff on their behalf. Win/Win all around.

    Unfortunately, the ONLY way to keep the peace is through SUPERIOR fire power. Why else do you hear examples like East St. Louis being un-policed due to fear of being shot at? Cops are out-gunned. Personally, I would love to take a squad of heavily armed men and drive my armored car through the middle of that bitch, and welcome the gun fight with the assholes who think it's okay to fire a weapon at a police officer. They'll end up in two places. In hand-cuffs, or in a body-bag.
    6811 likes this.
    Only the dead have seen the end of war. - Plato

    Fate whispers to the warrior, You cannot withstand the storm. The warrior replies, I am the storm.

  2. #122
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    Showed my local cops a couple of side panels from an armoured car I shot through a few years ago...1.5 inches thick both sides.....they got really upset but figured there was nothing they could do....An M113?...no problem....old style junk! The new mine proof crap can be rendered useless by paint balls and bags of oil paint on the windows.... they gotta come out to clean it!...then they are screwed again LOL!..Play soldier...see if the insurgents don't take you out.....been there and seen it!
    MaterielGeneral likes this.

  3. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by Old SF Guy View Post
    Our biggest issue is that the Police don't interact with our cities best and brightest citizens every day...they instead interact with our worst.

    We need to find ways to remind them that they are our front line defense, and who it is they are defending.


    Towns and cities perpetuate the belief that the police work for the city Government...we must remind them that they work for the cities tax payers and citizens..and the Government is a temporary management construct.

    Invite your local police to your cook out...your block party...your pig pickin... then talk to them like they were your brothers and not an authority above you.

    Tone is everything.


    p.s. I don't deal with end time debate...cause then its really out of my control....until it is plain...I do what I can.
    That's exactly right.
    I can tell a lot of our officers in town are a bit standoffish to civilians... because of just what you described. I ALWAYS wave at LEO as they come down my street, and always say hello and thank them for the tough job they do for us every day. And... miracles of miracles! Now they see ME and wave, and sometimes stop to say Hi. They are an integral part of our community, and we need to make them feel like part of us, NOT separate from us.
    inceptor likes this.

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  5. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by SGT E View Post
    Showed my local cops a couple of side panels from an armoured car I shot through a few years ago...1.5 inches thick both sides.....they got really upset but figured there was nothing they could do....An M113?...no problem....old style junk! The new mine proof crap can be rendered useless by paint balls and bags of oil paint on the windows.... they gotta come out to clean it!...then they are screwed again LOL!..Play soldier...see if the insurgents don't take you out.....been there and seen it!
    Treat your local LE like your enemy, they will become your enemy....show them whose side they should be on and more importantly why.

  6. #125
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    Look folks...My job is and has been to build insurgencies within...it is all about perception... you are at least starting with people who speak your language....Don't bitch to me if you can't even get your local police on your side....it means you don't have a good message.


    I know I can get disenfranchised people to kill...it just means I have to wait until you become disenfranchised to get you to listen to me.
    Denton likes this.

  7. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by Old SF Guy View Post
    Look folks...My job is and has been to build insurgencies within...it is all about perception... you are at least starting with people who speak your language....Don't bitch to me if you can't even get your local police on your side....it means you don't have a good message.


    I know I can get disenfranchised people to kill...it just means I have to wait until you become disenfranchised to get you to listen to me.
    Way ahead of you, brother. Working to get the local PD on my side.
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  8. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by Old SF Guy View Post
    Treat your local LE like your enemy, they will become your enemy....show them whose side they should be on and more importantly why.
    I agree with everything you have said so far buy my response is to those defending militarization of the police.

    My issue is police corruption. Yes I know every cop is not bad but what about those that are. Look on YouTube and other media. You will see intimidation, excessive use of force, searching(including homes) without a warrant, that last one floored me. You will see many videos of officers violating the 1st Amendment by ordering or forcing people to stop recording them in public. What do they have to hide? Body cams should be mandatory and if you tamper your suspended without pay.

    Do you want to militarize officers like that? Cops are the same as correction officers you have the brotherhood and if you snitch your banned. When I was an officer and someone was found out to be a snitch then we refused to speak to them unless we had to and tried to never have the person around us. What needs to happen is to make a 5 year felony that if you cover or lie for another officer that broke the law including violate a persons civil rights or knowingly did not report them, then you will go to court. Same with prosecutors because they are not saints. Suppressing evidence, lying or covering for corrupt police then they get a 5 year felony and stripped of their bar or what ever its called.

    The reason why I may have sounded strong opinionated is that all it takes is time. In time a bad cop will turn a good cop bad. Or the good cop will leave the force out of morals.
    A prudent man foresees evil and hides himself, But the simple pass on and are punished. Proverbs 22:3 NKJV

  9. #128
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    @MaterielGeneral ...You are absolutely correct. But that happens when LE see themselves as the Good versus the bad and not beholden to the people. This is also caused by local city government that often has less than 10% population turn out electing them and they believe the "Government" owns things, vice them working for the people.

    How do we fix this? By knowing who the DA, Judge, Mayor, Chief of Police are, and confronting them on this behavior. Build a coalition of citizens to confront them at town halls and city counsel meetings.

    They rig these by making citizens interact as individuals, while they sit as a unified counsel. The way to get to them is by showing them that you represent a large portion of a motivated voter base that will take this all the way to the 3 Boxes....(Soap, Ballot, Ammo).

    How do you show them this? Hit them at their core....Donors. Let the Donors know where you stand and let them know that you and your allies will work against their interests if they continue supporting the candidate in question. Politicians can ignore Papers all day...right up until its checks or cash.

 

 
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