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A Solution for the Cities in SHTF?

This is a discussion on A Solution for the Cities in SHTF? within the General Prepper and Survival Talk forums, part of the Survivalist, Prepper, Bushcrafter, Forest Rangers category; Originally Posted by Maine-Marine If just a few of these BLOCK groups decide they need more food and start TAKING from others.. the whole thing ...

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Thread: A Solution for the Cities in SHTF?

  1. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maine-Marine View Post
    If just a few of these BLOCK groups decide they need more food and start TAKING from others.. the whole thing goes to crap

    there are 673,000 people in boston that covers a 48 sq mile area.

    that would be 6,700 groups.. out of those more then half will have no food, no water, and no patience after 2 weeks.. they will start stealing and killing each other and then move to areas that have food

    POST SHTF encouraging people to be self sufficient and giving lessons and classes and offering advise ... will just let people know you HAVE things they need

    if a picture is worth a 1,000 words.
    My classes will be about survival for those who have not prepped, because itís too late to prep after SHTF. I donít intend to reveal to ANYONE that I have anything more than everyone else has. I tend to be a minimalist about my prepping, so I donít have huge stores of anything in my home. I intend to rely on wild nutritious plants and small animals abundant near my home for primary food. They can steal my weeds and raccoons if they want them; I know where I can get more.

  2. #82
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    If I may repeat something from my original post: “I know most of you think that the solution Cuba found would not happen here. I don’t want to hear why it wouldn’t work; (I can think of a lot of reasons myself). I want to hear how you would make it work if you were stuck in it.

    Very few of you have answered my question, -or even tried to. As I said above, I understand the problems. What I want to hear are your solutions in that scenerio.

    I’ve provided a scenario: you’re a prepper who lives in a big city, and for whatever reason you can’t leave during SHTF. What do you do where you live to ensure your health and safety against all the odds stacked against you and your family in an area with high population density?

    My purpose for the thread was to get some good ideas I hadn't thought of from you "guys".
    Last edited by TGus; 01-25-2018 at 07:45 PM.

  3. #83
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    Well, I reckon most of us that are responding can't answer that question because we don't choose to live in big cities and rely on the squirrels in the city park for sustenance.
    I would also feel pretty confident that most of the people here who do live in a big city have multiple contingency plans for escape, and if not they have plans to survive that they arent sharing. And since they aren't chiming in to sing your praises or validate your theories, well, I guess that tells me what I need to know.

    On a side note...there are several seasonings designed for pork that should work well in taking that gamey taste out of roast gangsta thigh.
    Inor, SGG and yooper_sjd like this.
    Just because I am peaceful does not mean I have forgotten how to be violent.
    If I am to die tonight I shall see that the night does not pass quietly.

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  5. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by SOCOM42 View Post
    @TGus , What makes you think that the roofs in Boston will support the kind of weight you propose?

    The structure would have to be built like a parking garage to support that weight.
    What is going to happen to housing structures when water from a thunder storm saturates that dirt instead of just running off?
    Answer, you will have an unburned Coconut Grove incident, building will go down like the twin towers
    Now I am not even questioning the roof loading from the dirt itself.
    I hate to say it, but I assume you have a lot of book/theoretical learning, but zero practical application experience.
    You remind me of an author of a book on WW2 war birds.
    He had all the right historical references,
    details of the assembly drawings, and the stories of individual combat pilots mentioned.
    But the man had no idea about how to fly an airplane, his description of how the control surfaces worked
    were, well abysmal, laughable and ignorant.
    Last but not least, the final page in the books picture showed what was supposed to be the airplane that
    replaced the Boeing B-17, the Boeing B-29, wrong picture! the plane showed was a Boeing B-50.
    Before you say how do I know, I have thousands of hours of flight time.
    I put you in the same category as that author,
    however in expertise there is one I know you do excel me in, typing,
    You put out a whole single spaced page in the time I complete one sentence.
    I am not too smart, but I have plenty practical application knowledge.
    Plus I only have a bachelors in ME, far below your masters or PhD.
    This is a reply to you and A Watchman.

    First do you dispute that Cuba's cities have many rooftop gardens? I'll assume that your answer is no, because you can find plenty of pictures of them on Google.

    Second, do you know that Boston receives up to 3' of wet snow in blizzards at least every several years, and that wet snow accumulates and remains there for weeks, and that very few flat roofs in Boston cave in, even though the houses are hundreds of years old? They are made to handle a lot of weight, because we need that strength in our climate. If they can put gardens up in Cuba, where there's no snow, I'm sure we can do it in Boston.

    Here's how my manual recommends that rooftop planters be placed:
    1) Chalk out the outline of the bearing walls below the roof.
    2) Chalk out 2' on both sides of the bearing walls, and 3' along the roof edge.
    3) This is where you can place 8" high planter boxes.
    4) If you are also using the roof to collect rain, leave open corridors between the planters so the rain can reach the nearest gutters.

    Of course, I've never created a rooftop garden, and I'm not going to bother trying before SHTF, but the above seems reasonable to me. If anyone disagrees, I'd like to learn from them.
    Last edited by TGus; 01-26-2018 at 07:02 AM.

  6. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by TGus View Post
    I never admit that Iím a prepper; that would only invite trouble after SHTF, so, no, I havenít revealed my abilities, evaluations, or plans to anyone. They will remain secret until they are needed, if ever. However, I am revealing them to you, and I will continue to do so, because I value the opinions of the members of this and other forums I visit.

    You can have all this and more for only $29.99, plus shipping and handling
    .
    Quote Originally Posted by TGus View Post
    If I may repeat something from my original post: ďI know most of you think that the solution Cuba found would not happen here. I donít want to hear why it wouldnít work; (I can think of a lot of reasons myself). I want to hear how you would make it work if you were stuck in it.Ē

    Very few of you have answered my question, -or even tried to. As I said above, I understand the problems. What I want to hear are your solutions in that scenerio.

    Iíve provided a scenario: youíre a prepper who lives in a big city, and for whatever reason you canít leave during SHTF. What do you do where you live to ensure your health and safety against all the odds stacked against you and your family in an area with high population density?
    Finally, some truth. What you really want, TGus, is for this community to provide you with ideas so that you can market them. Nothing wrong with making an honest dollar - but your method is beyond disingenuous and if you did "value the opinions of the members of this forum" you would realize that you have put a lot of time into something that is unworkable. Cut your losses.

    By the way - since you claim to have survival skills.... what wild plants in your area have you consumed? When did you eat your last racoon or squirrel? What did you use to catch/kill it? Did you have difficulty skinning it? Which method did you use?
    SOCOM42, azrancher, SGG and 1 others like this.
    ~~~~~~~~~~~
    Not even that.

  7. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by pakrat View Post
    I’ve posted about my experiences before on this forum. My wife and I were part of off-grid survival communities in some of the most rural areas of this country, 40 years ago. We had a couple engineers, textile makers, horticulturists, carpenters, a couple nurses and a pretty good infusion of financial resources. The experiment worked well for about three years during the actual develop and building phases, but once the communities became settled and the larger challenges overcome, a seemingly endless series of interpersonal issues began. Egos, adulterous affairs, blame games over failures, complaints over lack of respect or inequitable recognition or value surfaced. In an 18 month period the entire community system fell into anarchy… everybody doing their own thing and refusing to work as a group or take someone else’s direction… chaos, human nature… not external threats or scant resources or even exhausting work demands. Four and a half years and a lot of blood, sweat and tears in, and the farms were abandoned and the community ceased to exist.

    These were schooled intelligent dedicated people with many advantages over just some random collection of neighbors. And, yet their broken nature defeated them. I can’t imagine the same attempts amidst the pressures of a hostile SHTF world. I don’t think our modern psyche’s will allow us to transcend or devolve sufficiently to let us tribal-ize and survive. Perhaps our young children or our grand children could if they began in their developmental years, but our minds are much more terminal… wired to self-destruct, than we realize. Even with moderate success, we will commit societal suicide.
    I like what you wrote. Thank you for sharing your experience, -and it was a hard lesson we can all learn from.

    As a psychologist, what happened to your community is not surprising to me; it's exactly what I've heard from others who participated in such "cooperative" endeavors. But I don't believe it necessarily predicts what will ultimately happen to communities after SHTF. (It might; I don't know.) There's one important element that would apply after SHTF that's missing in your scenario. Put simply, it's: "Make it succeed, or die.". I think all the bad effects you described would still happen, but at some point, hopefully the participants would realize that such behavior jeopardized their survival, and they would begin to take responsibility for their actions. It would be a rough journey to that point though, and in the process, the group may well splinter into smaller groups, and each sub-group take on new members.

  8. #87
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    Well, like most psychologists, you're full of crap, but mildly entertaining.

    You have no practical experience with what you are preaching, as opposed to those of us who actively use the same techniques we plan to use in case of an event.
    You are trying to market, or plan on marketing plans that are untested.

    Your credibility is shot with me. Not that I figure you care.
    SOCOM42 and SGG like this.
    Just because I am peaceful does not mean I have forgotten how to be violent.
    If I am to die tonight I shall see that the night does not pass quietly.

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  9. #88
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    [email protected], how can you compare a country within the tropical zone to temperate Boston?

    There is no similarities in housing either,

    a few individual raised gardens as a supplement in Cuba to the normal food chain is a far cry from a SHTF scenario here.

    They have a 365 day growing season, no water shortage and the urban population density is also quite different.

    You are fantasizing with your food plan.

    The amount you could grow would be a waste of time,

    better off fishing outside the harbor or in the canal for stripers along with 900 others.

    I am not going to give you any detailed info for you to use in any publication by you.
    Coastie dad, Redneck and Inor like this.

  10. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by MountainGirl View Post
    By the way - since you claim to have survival skills.... what wild plants in your area have you consumed? When did you eat your last racoon or squirrel? What did you use to catch/kill it? Did you have difficulty skinning it? Which method did you use?
    I'd say that by now, I've eaten at least 75 wild plants. The ones I like best that I can immediately think of are fried sunchoke with wild onion, clover and dandelion salad, raccoon soup with shredded young mulberry leaves, stir-fried lotus root with beef, rose hip and pine-needle or juniper tea, half acorn flour and half white flour pancakes with local blueberries in them, almost any seaweed sprinkled with sesame oil, all types of edible mushrooms, (especially puffballs), fried cattail rhizomes and inner stems with day lilies and mustard leaves, plantain and milkweed kimchi, fried lamb's quarters, stinging nettle and poor man's pepper in fried duck eggs, or fern fiddleheads and roots, burdock root in beef stew, any fruit pie thickened with mallow sap, black walnuts, maple seeds, elderberry wine, dandilion wine, chicory and acorn coffee. Just yesterday, I had microwaved ginkgo nuts. Sorry that I can't remember more of the things I like. I have my recipes written down somewhere, but I can't see them now. (I wrote a thread about wild edibles here recently, if you want to read it.)

    I catch squirrel with rat traps attached to a 2x4 leaning against a tree. I also hunt them and rabbits with my air gun, because it's quiet, and I can take another shot if I miss. For raccoons, opossums, ducks, and geese, I use 330 conibear traps or spring snares with fish guts. I last had raccoon and squirrel during a week long camping trip into the Appalachians last fall. (I wrote a thread here describing it, if you want to look it up.) The only way I know to skin a raccoon or opossum is to hang them by the hind feet, and I still sometimes have trouble finding the scent glands above their hind ankles. For squirrels, I use a skinning method I learned from a teenager on Youtube. You slice into between the anus and the tailbone, put one foot on the tail, and just pull the hind feet until the skin reaches the head, then just cut the head with the flap of skin off.
    SGG likes this.

  11. #90
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    @TGus : Maybe you should move to Denver. They are already implementing your idea, albeit with some problems (most of which have already been outlined here). Plus, I think they are probably growing dope in most of their rooftop gardens, but you could improvise if you wish.

    Denver grappling over how to enforce stringent mandatory roof gardens rule | Fox News
    A Watchman likes this.
    rest in peace Corporal Bradley Coy 06/08/92-10/24/14


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