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A Solution for the Cities in SHTF?

This is a discussion on A Solution for the Cities in SHTF? within the General Prepper and Survival Talk forums, part of the Survivalist, Prepper, Bushcrafter, Forest Rangers category; Originally Posted by pakrat One of the most challenging results of a successful community will be people’s desire to have their friends and family join ...

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Thread: A Solution for the Cities in SHTF?

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by pakrat View Post
    One of the most challenging results of a successful community will be people’s desire to have their friends and family join that community. If you have a household with a widowed grandmother living there, the community can collectively support her with food, water and other basics. The problem will arise when she wants her sons and daughters and their families to be allowed to come in and enjoy the benefits of the small surviving community. Or, when people outside hear about the improved conditions.

    The compassionate members of the community will have a hard time saying NO. Suddenly a household of one becomes a group of nine or ten… putting a strain on resources. And, if one household is allowed to do it, others will want to have the same consideration. The debate alone could split and weaken the community along social/philosophical delineations.
    Any successful community will become the target or destination of everyone nearby, and has the potential to destroy the community if not wisely handled.

    Quote Originally Posted by pakrat View Post
    I think a neighborhood/community has the potential to be successful for a period of time, but current pervasive liberal, communist and socialist mindsets will do the same to that success that they have attempted do to this country… destroy it. Our society has been trained to gravitate toward dissatisfaction, dissention and chaos. Old habits die hard. SHTF will not alter that. Survival of the mentally fittest is the only cure. Only then will a community or group have more than temporary success.
    The problem with liberals, communists, and socialists is that they have been protected from the results of their ideologies by the practicality of the rest of us. They don't know where they're going, because they've never experienced the final end of it. It's really just an intelligent theory to them. During SHTF, all kinds of groups will form and try to become self-sufficient, -and many will fail. The practical ones will tend to be the survivors.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by MountainGirl View Post
    Thanks...which is also why I think any community plan short of the Senator's stronghold with the work ethic of Galt's Gulch is gonna fail.
    Intelligent self-determinism, and the will to continue living, (no matter the adversity), will prevail.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by TGus View Post
    Yes, I imagine it's pretty hopeless for the cities. Let's break the essential needs down by availability in Boston. Water: The Charles river runs through the center of Boston. Even if it becomes contaminated, the water can be boiled, and our flat rooftops can collect our adequate precipitation. So, water is not a huge problem. Shelter & security: The houses are almost all made of brick or stone, and the 1st floor windows tend to be high, so shelter & security won't be an insurmountable problem. We have very little violent crime anyway. Food: Gardens can be grown on roofs and local parks, and fished/gathered from the nearby ocean and river. Even so, it won't be enough to keep half of the population from starving. Heat: a quarter of the inner-city apartment buildings have working fireplaces, and the rest can improvise something, but lack of wood and house fires will become a big problem. Hygiene: Boston has huge gravity-fed reservoirs that will keep the water running for weeks on the lower floors, but after that, there are few places to put human waste. Diseases will spread, likely most seriously affecting those who do not find hygienic solutions.

    Though each city and each community will have its own unique challenges, at least 2/3rds of the population is sure to die. -But neighborhoods whose residents work together intelligently and productively will be more likely to survive, though it will still be a difficult and needy life for them. I estimate that a half million, out of the current 2.5 million in Boston, will be able to survive longer than a year. Luckily, I live outside the city and have much more abundant resources.
    Quote Originally Posted by TGus View Post
    Any successful community will become the target or destination of everyone nearby, and has the potential to destroy the community if not wisely handled.

    The problem with liberals, communists, and socialists is that they have been protected from the results of their ideologies by the practicality of the rest of us. They don't know where they're going, because they've never experienced the final end of it. It's really just an intelligent theory to them. During SHTF, all kinds of groups will form and try to become self-sufficient, -and many will fail. The practical ones will tend to be the survivors.
    Hi. I'm curious, since you "live outside the city and have much more abundant resources"... to what end are you taking your ideas? Are you prepping to be an eventual part of a sustaining community...or is this all just a mental exercise for you? What actual things are you doing in the lines of the ideas you propose? A lot of your ideas, while on the surface seem somewhat good, don't really flesh out in reality. But I could be wrong and you might have a lot of real life experience with gathering water on roof-tops, etc... do you? Do you have actual hands-on experience in any of the other ideas you came up with? Thanks!
    Inor, Coastie dad, TGus and 1 others like this.
    ~~~~~~~~~~~
    Not even that.

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  5. #34
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    I’ve posted about my experiences before on this forum. My wife and I were part of off-grid survival communities in some of the most rural areas of this country, 40 years ago. We had a couple engineers, textile makers, horticulturists, carpenters, a couple nurses and a pretty good infusion of financial resources. The experiment worked well for about three years during the actual develop and building phases, but once the communities became settled and the larger challenges overcome, a seemingly endless series of interpersonal issues began. Egos, adulterous affairs, blame games over failures, complaints over lack of respect or inequitable recognition or value surfaced. In an 18 month period the entire community system fell into anarchy… everybody doing their own thing and refusing to work as a group or take someone else’s direction… chaos, human nature… not external threats or scant resources or even exhausting work demands. Four and a half years and a lot of blood, sweat and tears in, and the farms were abandoned and the community ceased to exist.

    These were schooled intelligent dedicated people with many advantages over just some random collection of neighbors. And, yet their broken nature defeated them. I can’t imagine the same attempts amidst the pressures of a hostile SHTF world. I don’t think our modern psyche’s will allow us to transcend or devolve sufficiently to let us tribal-ize and survive. Perhaps our young children or our grand children could if they began in their developmental years, but our minds are much more terminal… wired to self-destruct, than we realize. Even with moderate success, we will commit societal suicide.
    Too Soon Old, Too Late Smart

  6. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by pakrat View Post
    I’ve posted about my experiences before on this forum. My wife and I were part of off-grid survival communities in some of the most rural areas of this country, 40 years ago. We had a couple engineers, textile makers, horticulturists, carpenters, a couple nurses and a pretty good infusion of financial resources. The experiment worked well for about three years during the actual develop and building phases, but once the communities became settled and the larger challenges overcome, a seemingly endless series of interpersonal issues began. Egos, adulterous affairs, blame games over failures, complaints over lack of respect or inequitable recognition or value surfaced. In an 18 month period the entire community system fell into anarchy… everybody doing their own thing and refusing to work as a group or take someone else’s direction… chaos, human nature… not external threats or scant resources or even exhausting work demands. Four and a half years and a lot of blood, sweat and tears in, and the farms were abandoned and the community ceased to exist.

    These were schooled intelligent dedicated people with many advantages over just some random collection of neighbors. And, yet their broken nature defeated them. I can’t imagine the same attempts amidst the pressures of a hostile SHTF world. I don’t think our modern psyche’s will allow us to transcend or devolve sufficiently to let us tribal-ize and survive. Perhaps our young children or our grand children could if they began in their developmental years, but our minds are much more terminal… wired to self-destruct, than we realize. Even with moderate success, we will commit societal suicide.
    Thanks for sharing that. It's nice to read words coming from a place of actual experience.
    Inor likes this.
    ~~~~~~~~~~~
    Not even that.

  7. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by MountainGirl View Post
    If Lucifer's Hammer and Atlas Shrugged had a kid - it would be this thread.

    If you haven't read both yet, you should. Start with the Hammer.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucifer%27s_Hammer

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlas_Shrugged


    I KNEW I liked you for a reason!

    Lucifer's Hammer was an enjoyable read, especially the scene when the surfer got whacked. That was hilarious.

    But Atlas! That is pure gold! I reread Atlas and Fountainhead about every 18-24 months just to keep my head screwed on right.

    Atta Boy Girl!
    stowlin likes this.
    rest in peace Corporal Bradley Coy 06/08/92-10/24/14

  8. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Inor View Post
    I KNEW I liked you for a reason!

    Lucifer's Hammer was an enjoyable read, especially the scene when the surfer got whacked. That was hilarious.

    But Atlas! That is pure gold! I reread Atlas and Fountainhead about every 18-24 months just to keep my head screwed on right.

    Atta Boy Girl!
    Thanks! I read Hammer about every 6 months & need to read Atlas & Fountainhead again too. Did you know Ouray Colorado is the town setting Rand used for the gulch? I drove there, just to see it. Almost moved there but I'm no Dagny and it's no Gulch.

    Edit: Yeah the surfer scene...like a flyswatter coming at him.
    Edit2: Well...I'm kinda Dagny, lol
    Last edited by MountainGirl; 01-22-2018 at 09:54 PM.
    Inor likes this.
    ~~~~~~~~~~~
    Not even that.

  9. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by MountainGirl View Post
    Thanks! I read Hammer about every 6 months & need to read Atlas & Fountainhead again too. Did you know Ouray Colorado is the town setting Rand used for the gulch? I drove there, just to see it. Almost moved there but I'm no Dagny and it's no Gulch.

    Edit: Yeah the surfer scene...like a flyswatter coming at him.
    Edit2: Well...I'm kinda Dagny, lol
    I did not know Ouray, CO was "the town".

    But if you want to experience "The Gulch", you and Tom should come down to our little valley for a long weekend. The climate is very different, but culturally it is very definitely "The Gulch". That is why we are here.
    MountainGirl likes this.
    rest in peace Corporal Bradley Coy 06/08/92-10/24/14

  10. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Inor View Post
    I did not know Ouray, CO was "the town".

    But if you want to experience "The Gulch", you and Tom should come down to our little valley for a long weekend. The climate is very different, but culturally it is very definitely "The Gulch". That is why we are here.
    We just might do that, but it would have to be in the winter; my skin peels off in the heat lol. Cultural Gulch up here too: straight up, and you better know what the hell you're doin. Wannabe's & pretenders fail fast.
    Inor likes this.
    ~~~~~~~~~~~
    Not even that.

  11. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by pakrat View Post
    I’ve posted about my experiences before on this forum. My wife and I were part of off-grid survival communities in some of the most rural areas of this country, 40 years ago. We had a couple engineers, textile makers, horticulturists, carpenters, a couple nurses and a pretty good infusion of financial resources. The experiment worked well for about three years during the actual develop and building phases, but once the communities became settled and the larger challenges overcome, a seemingly endless series of interpersonal issues began. Egos, adulterous affairs, blame games over failures, complaints over lack of respect or inequitable recognition or value surfaced. In an 18 month period the entire community system fell into anarchy… everybody doing their own thing and refusing to work as a group or take someone else’s direction… chaos, human nature… not external threats or scant resources or even exhausting work demands. Four and a half years and a lot of blood, sweat and tears in, and the farms were abandoned and the community ceased to exist.

    These were schooled intelligent dedicated people with many advantages over just some random collection of neighbors. And, yet their broken nature defeated them. I can’t imagine the same attempts amidst the pressures of a hostile SHTF world. I don’t think our modern psyche’s will allow us to transcend or devolve sufficiently to let us tribal-ize and survive. Perhaps our young children or our grand children could if they began in their developmental years, but our minds are much more terminal… wired to self-destruct, than we realize. Even with moderate success, we will commit societal suicide.
    One thing is certain and predictable ..... the nature of Man. World history backs it up.
    I will choose to enjoy the journey that God has prepared for me. Hidden Content

 

 
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