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A Solution for the Cities in SHTF?

This is a discussion on A Solution for the Cities in SHTF? within the General Prepper and Survival Talk forums, part of the Survivalist, Prepper, Bushcrafter, Forest Rangers category; Originally Posted by MountainGirl One thing's for sure: Snowflakes will have instantly melted. More like Homie will beat, kill and take anything they have weather ...

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Thread: A Solution for the Cities in SHTF?

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by MountainGirl View Post
    One thing's for sure: Snowflakes will have instantly melted.
    More like Homie will beat, kill and take anything they have weather they needed it or not.
    MountainGirl and 0rocky like this.
    New life as a house husband, major shift in duties.

    Karl Marx said, "Destroy their culture, rewrite their history. Ruin their art and literature, and defame their heroes, by offering fabrications to scandalize that which they considered good.
    After reading this Obama said I am on it.

  2. #22
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    One of the most challenging results of a successful community will be people’s desire to have their friends and family join that community. If you have a household with a widowed grandmother living there, the community can collectively support her with food, water and other basics. The problem will arise when she wants her sons and daughters and their families to be allowed to come in and enjoy the benefits of the small surviving community. Or, when people outside hear about the improved conditions.

    The compassionate members of the community will have a hard time saying NO. Suddenly a household of one becomes a group of nine or ten… putting a strain on resources. And, if one household is allowed to do it, others will want to have the same consideration. The debate alone could split and weaken the community along social/philosophical delineations.

    I think a neighborhood/community has the potential to be successful for a period of time, but current pervasive liberal, communist and socialist mindsets will do the same to that success that they have attempted do to this country… destroy it. Our society has been trained to gravitate toward dissatisfaction, dissention and chaos. Old habits die hard. SHTF will not alter that. Survival of the mentally fittest is the only cure. Only then will a community or group have more than temporary success.
    Last edited by pakrat; 01-22-2018 at 12:16 PM.
    MountainGirl likes this.
    Too Soon Old, Too Late Smart

  3. #23
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    If Lucifer's Hammer and Atlas Shrugged had a kid - it would be this thread.

    If you haven't read both yet, you should. Start with the Hammer.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucifer%27s_Hammer

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlas_Shrugged


    ~~~~~~~~~~~
    Not even that.

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  5. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by pakrat View Post
    One of the most challenging results of a successful community will be people’s desire to have their friends and family join that community. If you have a household with a widowed grandmother living there, the community can collectively support her with food, water and other basics. The problem will arise when she wants her sons and daughters and their families to be allowed to come in and enjoy the benefits of the small surviving community. Or, when people outside hear about the improved conditions.
    So true and one of the reasons why I haven't mentioned my plans to my neighbors. In my situation, I would not even begin to form the group until the crisis was well on its way. Any survival will be a challenge as will be maintaining a group. All I know to do is to try and understand nothing in this life is guaranteed.
    MountainGirl likes this.

  6. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by MountainGirl View Post
    If Lucifer's Hammer and Atlas Shrugged had a kid - it would be this thread.

    If you haven't read both yet, you should. Start with the Hammer.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucifer%27s_Hammer

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlas_Shrugged


    When I was in school Atlas Shrugged and We the living were required reading. Now they are band in some schools.
    New life as a house husband, major shift in duties.

    Karl Marx said, "Destroy their culture, rewrite their history. Ruin their art and literature, and defame their heroes, by offering fabrications to scandalize that which they considered good.
    After reading this Obama said I am on it.

  7. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smitty901 View Post
    When I was in school Atlas Shrugged and We the living were required reading. Now they are band in some schools.
    Not surprised, and that makes me hurl.
    ~~~~~~~~~~~
    Not even that.

  8. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by sideKahr View Post
    What can realistically be done to become self sufficient?

    In the city, nothing. How can you make an apartment building self sufficient in food, fuel, water, or indeed anything? Hopeless.

    The folks in the suburbs at least have some open earth to grow vegetables. They can cooperate to dam the creeks for water and provide for the common defense. They have a fighting chance.
    Yes, I imagine it's pretty hopeless for the cities. Let's break the essential needs down by availability in Boston. Water: The Charles river runs through the center of Boston. Even if it becomes contaminated, the water can be boiled, and our flat rooftops can collect our adequate precipitation. So, water is not a huge problem. Shelter & security: The houses are almost all made of brick or stone, and the 1st floor windows tend to be high, so shelter & security won't be an insurmountable problem. We have very little violent crime anyway. Food: Gardens can be grown on roofs and local parks, and fished/gathered from the nearby ocean and river. Even so, it won't be enough to keep half of the population from starving. Heat: a quarter of the inner-city apartment buildings have working fireplaces, and the rest can improvise something, but lack of wood and house fires will become a big problem. Hygiene: Boston has huge gravity-fed reservoirs that will keep the water running for weeks on the lower floors, but after that, there are few places to put human waste. Diseases will spread, likely most seriously affecting those who do not find hygienic solutions.

    Though each city and each community will have its own unique challenges, at least 2/3rds of the population is sure to die. -But neighborhoods whose residents work together intelligently and productively will be more likely to survive, though it will still be a difficult and needy life for them. I estimate that a half million, out of the current 2.5 million in Boston, will be able to survive longer than a year. Luckily, I live outside the city and have much more abundant resources.
    Last edited by TGus; 01-22-2018 at 08:11 PM.
    sideKahr likes this.

  9. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redneck View Post
    How could anyone be free of marauders when surrounded by thousands of hungry, desperate folks?

    You do understand becoming self-sufficient is more than a state of mind? It is a lifestyle. It takes lots of proper land, equipment, knowledge, years of practice, seed, tools, dependable water sources, etc. etc. etc. You just don't turn on a switch and say well now I want to be self-sufficient. Hell, I live a rural life on a farmstead, have gardens already prepared, over an acre of orchards & berries already bearing, thousands of lbs of grain fed catfish in the pond, fields full of deer & other game, tractor, fuel in storage, hand tools enough for a community to garden, hundreds of lbs of seed in storage, neighbors with hundreds of cattle, etc. ... and I still worry if we could survive.

    Here is the trick. If you want to live in a self-sufficient community post SHTF, like me, it takes folks that know how to work outdoors in the heat all day long. It takes thousands of lbs of food in storage, even with all the orchards, gardens, game, etc. because once again, when it comes time to be self-sufficient, you just don't turn on a switch & start harvesting food. In the best of circumstances, like say in the book One Second After, where the event occurs in the spring, it still takes weeks or months for the food to come in... assuming you are prepared to grow the food. Now consider worst case. What happens when the event is in the fall, when you can't even begin to start growing food for many months? That is why a group needs so much food in storage... besides all the other stuff. In my circumstance, I plan on needing 150 lbs of food in storage per person that could be in my group. That is why folks like me, with short, mild winters & long growing seasons have a huge advantage. With cool weather seed in storage, we can still produce food in December & back again starting in February. If you have a shorter growing season, you would need more food stores.

    I know you want this to work, but all my years of prepping & striving to eventually become self-sufficient, tells me you are dreaming if you thing a bunch of city folk, with no preparation, can magically become self-sufficient just because they need or want it to happen. How many hoes do you own? How many shovels? You have enough & the right type of seed in storage to feed your own family for a year? To provide food for this community for a year? You know how to grow your own food & how to handle all the problems? You know how to store seed? You know what open pollinated seed is? You don't find much of that in your local garden center. They like hybrids. Surely you don't think y'all will be able to run down to the hardware store to get all your supplies, even if you knew how to use them?
    As more of a survivalist than a prepper, I understand that you just don't "turn on a switch" and become self-sufficient. -But people can learn to survive with a lot less than you think, if they have to. They won't be knowledgeable, well-fed, warm, or safe, -but a good number will live and learn what to do to keep living.

  10. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by MountainGirl View Post
    If Lucifer's Hammer and Atlas Shrugged had a kid - it would be this thread.

    If you haven't read both yet, you should. Start with the Hammer.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucifer%27s_Hammer

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlas_Shrugged


    As an avid Science Fiction reader, I've read both. Thank you for your astute comment.

  11. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by TGus View Post
    As an avid Science Fiction reader, I've read both. Thank you for your astute comment.
    Thanks...which is also why I think any community plan short of the Senator's stronghold with the work ethic of Galt's Gulch is gonna fail.
    sideKahr likes this.
    ~~~~~~~~~~~
    Not even that.

 

 
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