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If the shit hits the fan how long will it be before people band together and form set

This is a discussion on If the shit hits the fan how long will it be before people band together and form set within the General Prepper and Survival Talk forums, part of the Survivalist, Prepper, Bushcrafter, Forest Rangers category; Originally Posted by Prepared One I don't see as rosy a picture as some here. War? Maybe so. Terror attacks? Most assuredly. Economic collapse? Likely. ...

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Thread: If the shit hits the fan how long will it be before people band together and form set

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prepared One View Post
    I don't see as rosy a picture as some here. War? Maybe so. Terror attacks? Most assuredly. Economic collapse? Likely. That crazy ass bastard in North Korea? Real problem. Do I want to keep living the way I do in relative comfort and ease? Hell yes. Do I want to play army, struggle to survive, and possibly die an ugly death, or live like they did in the 1800's? That would be no. I am simply prepared, Better then most on this planet I would say, to make the best of it should SHTF become a reality.

    I like my AC, my cold beer, BBQ, and football on the weekends. I have no delusions of grandeur if it ever comes down to SHTF. I keep my eyes on it, I prepare for it realistically and as best I can with what I have. I live my life and enjoy.

    As to the OP's question? Best you have a group in place before things get ugly. Not always feasible but best.

    Hmmm .... are we talking the NFL kind of football or lingerie football?
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  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by A Watchman View Post
    Hmmm .... are we talking the NFL kind of football or lingerie football?
    You mean....there is such a thing as lingerie football???? Wait! We are talking about WOMEN in lingerie playing football, right?
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  3. #23
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    Well not to ruin anyone's fantasy of being the lone wanderer but ten or twenty years post shtf most people will have either figured out how to survive or died off. And people are pack animals. They will band together. They'll eventually figure out farming and once they do they will begin to rebuild a sort of society. All human expansion was based on the food supply. Once there is a more or less steady supply of food people will began to migrate and spread. Not saying it will happen in our lifetimes but it will happen.

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  5. #24
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    Ahh the world of pretend...

    I do not like green eggs and ham.
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  6. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coastie dad View Post

    So don't be so critical of the old school thinking, especially from someone who lived through several of those events. Too many people fantasize about this bold new adventure not realizing the truth of it. I think video games and TV has glamorized the apocalyptic world to the point the basement dwellers find the idea more than mildly erotic.
    Now, will I continue Prepping? Of course. But I'm going to bear in mind that the basic ideas we as real preppers aspire to are an old school way of thinking and doing.
    Hey I'm old school myself. I grew up expecting a nuclear war & in school we had the drop & cover drills if you saw a bright flash of light. I was a Minuteman Missile Combat Crew Commander in the early 80s, where I was trained to fight the old war where you expended hundreds or thousands of nuclear weapons to beat down your opponent. I served in an underground launch control center which hung from the ceiling of the concrete capsule by four huge shock absorbers, so that we might survive near misses in an all out exchange. But even then, prior to personal computers, prior to smart phones, prior to the internet, and prior to everything controlled by computers, we had a fusing option called a high altitude fusing burst, where our nuclear warhead would explode high up in the atmosphere... not on the ground or a few thousand feet off the ground. You see, even way back then the war planners found out an extra "benefit" of a nuclear explosion was the EMP and they had determined that such a high altitude explosion would do great harm to communications & other electronics.

    Nowadays, our society's complete dependence on the computer has only made us more vulnerable to such an EMP attack, or like stated a similar solar event. When our own government states 90% would die, that ought to tell you something about how vulnerable we are to just such a few weapons. But that is not the only change because the weapons themselves have changed. Now we have super EMP weapons that are designed not for blast damage but to generate EMP and they can make a whole lot more. One of the last North Korean underground detonations was considered a failure because it was not as large an explosion as expected. However, if they were testing an EMP device, that would be the expected result.

    Times change & the military always has to adjust to the new world... to new technology & new strategy. The next war will not be fought like WWII. The nuclear exchange we planned for back in the 60s, 70s & 80s is still possible but no longer necessary. That is what I mean by old school.

    Quote Originally Posted by rice paddy daddy View Post
    Do you REALLY think that another country would explode a nuclear warhead 300 miles above Kansas (that is what it would take for an EMP to affect the whole US) without a MASSIVE nuclear ICBM response by the United States?
    In the past, our nuclear deterrence kept us safe all these years based upon MAD... mutually assured destruction. Each power's ability to destroy the other kept the weapons in check. Why would Russia or China attack if we could still destroy them? What is different now, and why I think these times are so dangerous, is that we have folks that would attack us & could care less what happened to their own country. You think that crazy fat man in North Korea cares what happens to his citizens? You think those religious zealots in the middle east care if they or their people die? MAD does not work against them. Once again, thinking retaliation would keep them from attacking is old school, in my book.

    If we conduct a preemptive strike on North Korea, be it nuclear or not, do you think they would hesitate to retaliate... if possible? Can we stop their cyber units from unleashing an attack? I sure hope so. Does one of their satellites orbiting over the US has an EMP weapon in it? If so, I assume we have plans to stop or destroy it. Problem is, if we are not 100% things could quickly go very bad. If ISIS gets a dirty bomb or pays to get access to our grid, you think a massive nuclear attack on them would keep them from using their weapons? Where do you want us to target? What about the fallout impacting us & our allies?
    Last edited by Redneck; 04-04-2017 at 07:08 AM.
    Coastie dad and Denton like this.

  7. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redneck View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Coastie dad View Post

    So don't be so critical of the old school thinking, especially from someone who lived through several of those events. Too many people fantasize about this bold new adventure not realizing the truth of it. I think video games and TV has glamorized the apocalyptic world to the point the basement dwellers find the idea more than mildly erotic.
    Now, will I continue Prepping? Of course. But I'm going to bear in mind that the basic ideas we as real preppers aspire to are an old school way of thinking and doing.
    Hey I'm old school myself. I grew up expecting a nuclear war & in school we had the drop & cover drills if you saw a bright flash of light. I was a Minuteman Missile Combat Crew Commander in the early 80s, where I was trained to fight the old war where you expended hundreds or thousands of nuclear weapons to beat down your opponent. I served in an underground launch control center which hung from the ceiling of the concrete capsule by four huge shock absorbers, so that we might survive near misses in an all out exchange. But even then, prior to personal computers, prior to smart phones, prior to the internet, and prior to everything controlled by computers, we had a fusing option called a high altitude fusing burst, where our nuclear warhead would explode high up in the atmosphere... not on the ground or a few thousand feet off the ground. You see, even way back then the war planners found out an extra "benefit" of a nuclear explosion was the EMP and they had determined that such a high altitude explosion would do great harm to communications & other electronics.

    Nowadays, our society's complete dependence on the computer has only made us more vulnerable to such an EMP attack, or like stated a similar solar event. When our own government states 90% would die, that ought to tell you something about how vulnerable we are to just such a few weapons. But that is not the only change because the weapons themselves have changed. Now we have super EMP weapons that are designed not for blast damage but to generate EMP and they can make a whole lot more. One of the last North Korean underground detonations was considered a failure because it was not as large an explosion as expected. However, if they were testing an EMP device, that would be the expected result.

    Times change & the military always has to adjust to the new world... to new technology & new strategy. The next war will not be fought like WWII. The nuclear exchange we planned for back in the 60s, 70s & 80s is still possible but no longer necessary. That is what I mean by old school.

    Quote Originally Posted by rice paddy daddy View Post
    Do you REALLY think that another country would explode a nuclear warhead 300 miles above Kansas (that is what it would take for an EMP to affect the whole US) without a MASSIVE nuclear ICBM response by the United States?
    In the past, our nuclear deterrence kept us safe all these years based upon MAD... mutually assured destruction. Each power's ability to destroy the other kept the weapons in check. Why would Russia or China attack if we could still destroy them? What is different now, and why I think these times are so dangerous, is that we have folks that would attack us & could care less what happened to their own country. You think that crazy fat man in North Korea cares what happens to his citizens? You think those religious zealots in the middle east care if they or their people die? MAD does not work against them. Once again, thinking retaliation would keep them from attacking is old school, in my book.

    If we conduct a preemptive strike on North Korea, be it nuclear or not, do you think they would hesitate to retaliate... if possible? Can we stop their cyber units from unleashing an attack? I sure hope so. Does one of their satellites orbiting over the US has en EMP weapon in it? If so, I assume we have plans to stop or destroy it. Problem is, if we are not 100% things could quickly go very bad. If ISIS gets a dirty bomb or pays to get access to our grid, you think a massive nuclear attack on them would keep them from using their weapons? Where do you want us to target? What about the fallout impacting us & our allies?
    North Korea has sattelites? I did not know that.

  8. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Publius View Post

    Also, its great that you have livestock and crops in the ground. When massive population centers however, who don't, leave the concrete jungle, and potentially gangs of dozens or hundred of people sweep through the countryside, starving and desperate...depending on where you live, at that point, you might not be as safe as you thought you were. Just some food for thought.
    How are they going to get here? It's a long walk from the city, and with no gasoline to fuel vehicles, "they" will have to walk. And it would be a long, long walk for them.
    But you are quite correct on how the MAJORITY of Americans have become dependent upon electricity and modern inventions. Those will be dead in the first few months. The cities will become hells of putrefying, stinking flesh.
    But again, I'm not worried. Wife and I are of the generation that were birthed and raised by men and women who went through the Great Depression and WW2. We are they type who purchase and use things from Lehmans catalog. https://www.lehmans.com/
    Redneck and hag like this.
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  9. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by rice paddy daddy View Post
    How are they going to get here? It's a long walk from the city, and with no gasoline to fuel vehicles, "they" will have to walk. And it would be a long, long walk for them.
    Plus I believe even if they are driving, that the suburbs will very quickly set up barriers to prevent this mass exodus from destroying their own communities. I just don't think folks will be able to drive or walk wherever they wish after a SHTF event.

  10. #29
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    As an earthquake , blizzard, forest fire , tornado is happening people help when where they can as it is ongoing. After the immediate danger is passed people will travel to your area to help their friends and others. Tornado did damage near Kansas City 3 weekends ago and for several days after and for every weekend after individuals have volunteered to help cleanup debris and repair roofs.

    Electrical grid down many folks will initially help out each other assuming it will just be a day or two . Weeks into it especially if it is much of the country things will change.

    For a longer term power outage, nuclear war, conventional war or economic collapse many small communities / neighborhoods will try and pull together to help each other out it is what humans have done for thousands of years in small family/ tribes / nation states . It is what they will do again it may or may not work just saying that is what they will do as it is human nature. Read all the fantasy books about end of the world as we know it and there is always a group of bad guys. You defeat a group of bad guys with a group of good guys.

    Starts with one neighbor checking on anther and grows from there. Just in America you see since before we were a nation a home guard/ militia / posse structure that is stil in place in many areas of the country. No reason not to think this will not continue. Volunteer fire departments and ambulance companies will do what they can and then take on more recruits as the crises goes on in many areas of the country. Most people will pitch in were and when they can.

    Should contact by normal phone, satellite phone , internet , radio be down to the rest of the country - no National or State government still functioning then folks will start picking themselves and families up then reaching out and working with neighbors to help each other out. If the existing town , township , county government is not functioning then they will reestablish it.

    After Katrina there were horrible events - there were also many bass fisherman from northern Louisiana or from East Texas that took their private boats down and pulled people from roofs. It was not a coordinated effort , was not pretty or official but those guys saved lives. For all the talk about New Orleans you do not hear much about the rest of the effected area where a lot of people helped each other out. Many homes were rebuilt by folks going down for a week or two and helping out. I took a camper down to a family to use prior to FEMA getting anything moved to the area . Spent a couple days getting small water system set up for a neighborhood and working on some roof repairs. They did not sit around and wait for the government to do anything they started where they could and worked from where they where.

    There are many faith based disaster relief groups, Red Cross and veterans groups if anyone is interested in that type of prepping and helping others communities out.
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  11. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redneck View Post
    Plus I believe even if they are driving, that the suburbs will very quickly set up barriers to prevent this mass exodus from destroying their own communities. I just don't think folks will be able to drive or walk wherever they wish after a SHTF event.
    Additionally, lets say these folks make it out of the city/burbs out to where there is a two lane country road. OK, now what. Keep going till you run out of gas? Turn off at an even smaller road? Then what? Sooner or later (sooner) you they are going to get to a place with a roadblock, and country folk with guns who (at best, if they are good people) will just order the city peeps to turn around and go back the other way. At worst? Bad things, man... bad things.

    I figure as long as it isn't an EMP type event where all cars newer than the 1970's flat out die, you have 3 days TOPS to get to wherever it is you are going.

    If you choose to shelter in place, then you have 3 days max to get ready to defend your island.

    If you choose to bug out, you have 3 days max to get to where you are going and get set up.

    Any significant disruption that is on a national scale will turn ugly FAST... much faster than most would think.

    IMHO.
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