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ARDF and Communication when SHTF

This is a discussion on ARDF and Communication when SHTF within the General Prepper and Survival Talk forums, part of the Survivalist, Prepper, Bushcrafter, Forest Rangers category; Originally Posted by Tylerzee Ahh, ok, any idea how long it takes these people to trace a transmission? Not just local ham radio groups but ...

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Thread: ARDF and Communication when SHTF

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tylerzee View Post
    Ahh, ok, any idea how long it takes these people to trace a transmission? Not just local ham radio groups but the fcc for example?
    If it is the feds, before you speak after hitting the x-mit key.

    Back in the 70s and 80s, FAA control towers could DF you when you hit the key,

    but that was on a given frequency of the tower. I know, I used it one time to save my bacon.

    They gave me a DF steer to the runway, after 10 hours of flying up the coast, half gallon of gas left when landed, in one tank.

    Today with spectrum analyzers able to cover everything in a second and coupled to a DF array your are fried.

    There is no rotating an antenna for a DF steer, it is done electronically between the array elements.

    Encrypted burst transmissions are the only course.

    Even a regular conversation between to people can contain a burst if done right and may not be detected.

    I think @Denton can attest to this.
    Last edited by SOCOM42; 08-06-2020 at 08:43 AM.
    Denton likes this.

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by SOCOM42 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Tylerzee View Post
    Ahh, ok, any idea how long it takes these people to trace a transmission? Not just local ham radio groups but the fcc for example?
    If it is the feds, before you speak after hitting the x-mit key.

    Back in the 70s and 80s, FAA control towers could DF you when you hit the key,

    but that was on a given frequency of the tower. I know, I used it one time to save my bacon.

    They gave me a DF steer to the runway, after 10 hours of flying up the coast, half gallon of gas left when landed, in one tank.

    Today with spectrum analyzers able to cover everything in a second and coupled to a DF array your are fried.

    There is no rotating an antenna for a DF steer, it is done electronically between the array elements.

    Encrypted burst transmissions are the only course.

    Even a regular conversation between to people can contain a burst if done right and may not be detected.

    I think @Denton can attest to this.[IMG class=inlineimg]https://www.prepperforums.net/forum/images/smilies/tango_face_wink.png[/IMG]
    What is a burst? I’m very new to all of this, I’m just trying to plan ahead and learn though.

    I’ve also read that pdf above before posting this thread, I don’t fully understand it because I’m still learning.. lol does a dmr repeater require an internet connection? Yes or no is what I’m looking for because I’m wondering if we could use dmr radios over a repeater when shtf.

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tylerzee View Post
    What is a burst? I’m very new to all of this, I’m just trying to plan ahead and learn though.

    I’ve also read that pdf above before posting this thread, I don’t fully understand it because I’m still learning.. lol does a dmr repeater require an internet connection? Yes or no is what I’m looking for because I’m wondering if we could use dmr radios over a repeater when shtf.
    A repeater is just that signal in on one freq. and out on another.

    They can use a internet connection for long long jumps to another internet connection, but no for the most part.

    The best bet it for using one for extended range locally, their antennas and associated hardware is usually on hill or a tower of sorts.

    When on, I use three 2 meter repeaters, with 5 watts I can trigger the furthest which 25 miles away and behind a hill.

    Using 50 watts I can enter one that is 120 miles away using a Yag antenna on a rotor.

    Can get to NYC through that one.

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  5. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by SOCOM42 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Tylerzee View Post
    What is a burst? I’m very new to all of this, I’m just trying to plan ahead and learn though.

    I’ve also read that pdf above before posting this thread, I don’t fully understand it because I’m still learning.. lol does a dmr repeater require an internet connection? Yes or no is what I’m looking for because I’m wondering if we could use dmr radios over a repeater when shtf.
    A repeater is just that signal in on one freq. and out on another.

    They can use a internet connection for long long jumps to another internet connection, but no for the most part.

    The best bet it for using one for extended range locally, their antennas and associated hardware is usually on hill or a tower of sorts.

    When on, I use three 2 meter repeaters, with 5 watts I can trigger the furthest which 25 miles away and behind a hill.

    Using 50 watts I can enter one that is 120 miles away using a Yag antenna on a rotor.

    Can get to NYC through that one.
    Ohh, ok, I have a ton of learning to do.. I’m going to do one of the course and try to get licensed.. what is a burst though?
    Denton likes this.

  6. #15
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    Burst is the compression of voice or data and transmit the whole thing in one second.

    It would run at say 10x-30x normal speed and encrypted, very hard to locate and record.

    You would have to know the exact frequency and time to run a high speed recorder to capture it.

    If inserted into normal traffic it would sound like a little bit of static.

    SF have used it a lot on covert missions to report to base.
    Last edited by SOCOM42; 08-06-2020 at 06:35 PM.
    Denton likes this.

  7. #16
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    Probably the easiest way to avoid triangulation is to understand how far away you can be heard by the receivers. Example HF communication travel extremely far...even bouncing of the Ionosphere to go halfway around the world on as little as 1/4 watt (if your really good).

    higher frequencies like VHF and UHF, microwave etc get absorbed very quickly by the earth and vegetation and pass through the ionosphere without being reflected.

    So you have to use a varied approach to avoidance.....Its hard to localize HF NVIS transmission outside of 30 miles without ionosphere sounding and a good algorithm and using Interferometric antennas. Aircrafts can aid in this however.

    PTT including DMR using VHF and UHF typically fall off after a few kilometers, which is why you have repeater. so they would be good for local comms as long as you do not transmit often or from the same locations.

    People forget about wired communications.......if you have camp like set up with observation posts etc....then I would buy some 2 strand wire (coated) and run that to all the locations I needed. Then using standard telephones handsets ,wire them up, using a battery to power a light or bell to signal an incoming call. This can easily be made into a switchboard apparatus, allowing calls to go in and out and be patched together as needed.

    This can effectively be done over great distances...as seen historically with the telegraph. This can allow for coordinated interference and deception in the event that detection and DF'ing is suspected. .
    Denton, Inor and MountainGirl like this.

  8. #17
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    If it really a SHTF event, I doubt the feds will really be worried about a few of us. If you belong to a group
    with a bunch of hams, put together a list of frequencies and times to meet up.I put together a list of 124
    frequencies and a rotating time of day for get togethers on the radio. It's not perfect but it can help.
    Denton likes this.
    I really want one of these!Hidden Content

  9. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Old SF Guy View Post
    Probably the easiest way to avoid triangulation is to understand how far away you can be heard by the receivers. Example HF communication travel extremely far...even bouncing of the Ionosphere to go halfway around the world on as little as 1/4 watt (if your really good).

    higher frequencies like VHF and UHF, microwave etc get absorbed very quickly by the earth and vegetation and pass through the ionosphere without being reflected.

    So you have to use a varied approach to avoidance.....Its hard to localize HF NVIS transmission outside of 30 miles without ionosphere sounding and a good algorithm and using Interferometric antennas. Aircrafts can aid in this however.

    PTT including DMR using VHF and UHF typically fall off after a few kilometers, which is why you have repeater. so they would be good for local comms as long as you do not transmit often or from the same locations.

    People forget about wired communications.......if you have camp like set up with observation posts etc....then I would buy some 2 strand wire (coated) and run that to all the locations I needed. Then using standard telephones handsets ,wire them up, using a battery to power a light or bell to signal an incoming call. This can easily be made into a switchboard apparatus, allowing calls to go in and out and be patched together as needed.

    This can effectively be done over great distances...as seen historically with the telegraph. This can allow for coordinated interference and deception in the event that detection and DF'ing is suspected. .
    This is why I have a dozen TA-312's and a SB-22 switchboard.

    With 15 miles of air dispensable wire, oh also a couple pairs of Ta-1's
    Denton and Old SF Guy like this.

  10. #19
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    I love this forum, you learn some really interesting things haha kind of cool how it all works.
    Annie likes this.

  11. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tylerzee View Post
    I love this forum, you learn some really interesting things haha kind of cool how it all works.
    What's really cool is how all the younger less experience preppers can come here and share the details about themselves in an anonymous forum....with little to no risk that the more experienced, savvy preppers would use anything shared here to try to take stuff away from the new preppers in a SHTF....

    Hey what region are you from anyway?
    Inor likes this.

 

 
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