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Is Pope Francis/Catholic Church Leaders EVIL? Are Catholics complicit?

6K views 74 replies 19 participants last post by  The Tourist 
#1 ·
I wonder how people can continue to fund, attend and ascribe to the doctrine of the Catholic Church after all of the evil that the church has done specifically regarding molest and abuse of children and generally of the history of evil doings over centuries?

Just another thing below to add to the long list of things that make me believe Catholic church leaders are evil.

Am I wrong?

https://www.vaticannews.va/en/pope/...ntral-american-migrants-aid-peters-pence.html
 
#2 ·
Read that this morning. Disheartening to say the least. Why should the Catholic church be any different then any other political entity or country. Eventually, heavy with power and money, they corrupt themselves.

Always one of my favorites

Exodu32:7

“And the LORD said unto Moses, Go, get thee down; for thy people, which thou broughtest out of the land of Egypt, have corrupted themselves:”
 
#3 ·
The Catholic Church has done some pretty bad things. They handled the child abuse thing miserably. No excuse.
But, it seems we always look at the richest religions, countrys , and people to go after for bad things they have done.
We need to focus on People that do bad things and not say everyone in that religion, or country is bad.. Unless we are at war, then its game on.
 
#4 ·
I do believe the Church leadership is corrupt and even evil. I don't think most Catholics are. I have known many fine Catholics. I believe Annie here on this forum is a devout Catholic, and she seems like a very fine lady and great human being. I personally don't subscribe to the doctrine, and find my close encounters with God at the top of mountains, or in the emptiness of the desert.
 
#6 · (Edited)
Full disclosure: I was raised Catholic. My cousins and I were alter boys. We had great experiences in the church and the priest and nuns were good to us kids. Unfortunately that is not the case with all concerned all the time. The Church playing musical priests to protect the Church was a horrible policy that allowed molistation of additional children. The leadership has been criminally complicit. The faithful are appalled by such acts as would any moral being. The Church heirachy is out of touch and has made the problem worse.

I am currently a nondenominational Christian because I am getting the right message to feed my soul. I wasn’t growing spiritually in the Church. There will always be those who gain positions of trust that will abuse that trust and use their positions for evil. Politics, teachers, police, clergy and so on. The Bible warns us to watch out for such wolves in sheeps clothing. The Church has had corruption though out its history and survived and I believe that will be the case but it is going to take a beating.
 
#7 ·
Good responses all, I appreciate them as I am struggling with grouping Catholics in the same evil category as so called moderate muslimes who fund islamists who want you and me dead.

Isn't it the same thing with church going Catholics who tithe and those funds go to the evil doers in the Vatican and elsewhere within the Catholic Church?
 
#8 · (Edited)
Interesting discussion right here. Will vote with those who say Catholics in general are near all super nice folks. Wife was partially raised by a nice Catholic family and I helped guard there big Church over where I worked many times. Had to come make sure they was not getting too wild on casino night etc. They treated me very nice. Think I done told the story about following the money tenders to the bank to make an after hours deposit. When about half way down the chute the overfilled money bag got hung up in the teeth of the accepter gizmo. It was right ofter Easer or Christiams I think. Those jokers had me out there with a tire tool prizing around on the deopository to try to make it go on down. Sure somebody was taking movies of that. Expected the FBI to come knocking any day. lol. Then on top of all that we were Lutherans for sevreal years..and that is just Catholics minus the statues of the Virgin Mary. So I am sorta familar with ritualistic hocus pocus bs. Their theology is all messed up..but fortunately the Gospel of Christ is highly durable. Hopefully durable enough to survive commie Jesuit Popes. I have took a vow to not trash talk other Christian denominations or cults..so thats all I know about that. It is sorta astounding how much they are collectiong off the US government to take care of the undocumented democrats.
https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2015/sep/24/catholic-church-collects-16-billion-in-us-contract/
 
#9 ·
I was raised Catholic. I am not a devout Catholic. I have faith in the Lord, God.. My faith may not be as strong as others. I do not go to Church ever week at all and havent in quite some time.
But, I believe in Jesus Christ and what he did for us and his sacrifices. I believe. Thats my faith..
It does bother me that the Catholic Church is the only one brought to light on this molestation issue.
Islam calls for it. I am sure every other religion, cult and members only club has had issues with the same dang thing.
 
#11 ·
After learning what the church did with the Nazis after WW2 anyone that follows, supports or believes them are a bunch of fools. Organized religion has been the biggest joke played on modern man, IMHO. Just the amount of deaths caused by religion alone is enough to ban it in all forms, again IMHO. Blast away. :violent:
 
#12 ·
Death because of religion is a myth, to an extent.. Think about Pol Pot, Mao. No religion tied to them because they werent practicing anymore.
But, many wars that are said to be caused by religion were just stating that is the religion of the majority within the country.
The Crusades was a war of religion, started by Muslims..
But, its another topic, another thread.. I am told to not judge people. So, I dont , but character says allot, regardless of religion.
 
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#16 ·
Let me ask you this: are you complicit in the evils that the United States has commited simply because you're a citizen? All those bad politicians? Are they your fault?

I say no. I think you stand for what is and was always great about this country. It breaks our heart that things are going so far wrong now. Same goes for me; for my country and the Catholic Church. I'll be patriot and a Catholic until I die, I hope.

All I can say is that the approved Catholic Church prophecies are coming true. Our Lady of Good Success, Our Lady of La Salette and others. All are coming true.

The Catholic Church has been infiltrated by Communists and Freemasons. You can download Bella Dodd's School of Darkness online to read about it, or get the reader's digest version on Wikipedia if you care.
 
#17 · (Edited)
The difference is that the Church is not as a basic tenant seeking converts by submission or death. Spanish Inquisition? Religious wars? You bet. Crusades? Yep. Enter the crusades all the despited lands were either Jewish or Christian prior to Islam. Let's also look at Protestants. Henry the 8th turned on the Church when they refused to annul his marriage. Salem witch hunts ring a bell? Lots of anti Catholism and anti Semitism too. Does one get painted with a broad brush because of the misdeeds of the past? Religions and faiths are passionate things.

Look at what happened to the branch divisions at the hands of the ATF, FBI and other government agencies. Are we evil because we pay taxes? I do think parishioners need to demand more of there leadership. The Vatican is not transparent by any means. @Slippy has a point: are good Catholics or followers of other faiths enablers with tithes when it is known that leadership commits mortal sin repeatedly and unrepentantly? Money talks. Much is used correctly. Everyone is not guilty because of a sinner in leadership but such acts done repeatedly can not go on unpunished.
 
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#22 ·
Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? Likewise every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.
Matthew 7:15-20 (NIV)
 
#30 ·
So many false narratives and assumptions in this thread. First off the Pope did not sign a `pact' with the Nation of Islam. It was a peace treaty to try and end the killings and violence in the Middle East and the spread of terrorism. In full disclosure I am a Catholic (by choice) and I agree with their teachings and what they are trying to do throughout the world (spreading peace, humanitarian aid and the word of God). I don't think they are superior to other Christian faiths and it is disturbing to me that they always seem to be the target for both non believers and other Christians as well. Yes, there has been some terrible things that have happened and others have tried to cover them up, but that is the evil of man and not the church. If you look at other Christian denominations, these things have and are happening there as well, but the press doesn't get as much mileage from an individual church, as they do from a large established organization. Remove the log from your own eye, before bothering with the splinter in mine.

The other thing to realize is the reason they consider the Catholic church as rich is that they own properties all around the world (churches, schools, hospitals, hospices, shelters, food pantries) and that is 95% of their assessed value. The Catholic Church was the first organized church commissioned by Jesus to his disciple Peter (the first Pope). Because of this they have had over 2000 years to grow and build the first schools, hospitals and other infrastructure to help the poor. Three of their main charities are in the top 25 for money going directly to the cause (95-97%). Most of the money they do have either supports their current physical assets or to charity, again this doesn't make them superior, as other Christian faiths do good works, it is just that the Catholics have had the advantage of doing it longer.

The only other thing I feel compelled to add is that if ever was there a time to be united as Christians, it is now. I really don't care what denomination you are, you are my brother. We may go to different churches, we may have slightly different views and interpretations of the Bible, but we agree on what is important. There is one God (God of love and forgiveness) and he gave his only son for our salvation. Jesus told us the two most important Commandments where: `Love on another as I have loved you.' and `Do not judge lest you be judged'. Peace be with you all.
 
#32 · (Edited)
So many false narratives and assumptions in this thread. First off the Pope did not sign a `pact' with the Nation of Islam. It was a peace treaty to try and end the killings and violence in the Middle East and the spread of terrorism.
Whatever you want to call it, the pope said this:
"God not only permits, but positively wills, the pluralism and diversity of religions, both Christian and nonChristian."

Jesus said:
John 14:6; "I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No man cometh to the Father, but by me."

In full disclosure I am a Catholic (by choice) and I agree with their teachings and what they are trying to do throughout the world (spreading peace, humanitarian aid and the word of God).
I'm a Catholic, too.

I don't think they are superior to other Christian faiths and it is disturbing to me that they always seem to be the target for both non believers and other Christians as well.
I don't think the people are, but the traditional teachings are superior.

Yes, there has been some terrible things that have happened and others have tried to cover them up, but that is the evil of man and not the church. If you look at other Christian denominations, these things have and are happening there as well, but the press doesn't get as much mileage from an individual church, as they do from a large established organization. Remove the log from your own eye, before bothering with the splinter in mine.
No, we should be better. We are supposed to be better.
Jesus said:
[48] But he that knew not, and did things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. And unto whomsoever much is given, of him much shall be required: and to whom they have committed much, of him they will demand the more.

The other thing to realize is the reason they consider the Catholic church as rich is that they own properties all around the world (churches, schools, hospitals, hospices, shelters, food pantries) and that is 95% of their assessed value. The Catholic Church was the first organized church commissioned by Jesus to his disciple Peter (the first Pope). Because of this they have had over 2000 years to grow and build the first schools, hospitals and other infrastructure to help the poor. Three of their main charities are in the top 25 for money going directly to the cause (95-97%). Most of the money they do have either supports their current physical assets or to charity, again this doesn't make them superior, as other Christian faiths do good works, it is just that the Catholics have had the advantage of doing it longer.
Our forefathers did great things. They built great churches and cathedrals with the nichols and dimes of common people. Missionaries literally sacrificed their lives to bring the Faith to the Indians, the Chinese, etc. Now we build churches that look like steak houses (Fr. Cekada's words) and Pope Paul VI's Hall in the Vatican that literally looks like a snake's head. What's happened?

Fixture Interior design Architecture Symmetry Hall


The only other thing I feel compelled to add is that if ever was there a time to be united as Christians, it is now. I really don't care what denomination you are, you are my brother. We may go to different churches, we may have slightly different views and interpretations of the Bible, but we agree on what is important. There is one God (God of love and forgiveness) and he gave his only son for our salvation. Jesus told us the two most important Commandments where: `Love on another as I have loved you.' and `Do not judge lest you be judged'. Peace be with you all.
I'm with you in as much as we need unity.
 
#33 ·
Well, Annie, you found a picture of a church that looks like a snake. To be fair, I just saw a picture of a two headed snake that looks a bit like a Christian Cross. I believe that God has a sense of humor.

To give you some peace, I do remember my classes in Daniel/Revelation. There is a line in Revelation that quotes that "the remnant" shall all stand together waiting for God to return. (My wife is feverishly looking through her Bible passages, she believes it's Rev 14-6).

During the class I was taught that that their use of the word 'remnant' meant the survivors of the end times. And they could be Catholics, Protestants, Indian Chiefs or Radish Lovers. The common denominator was the their love and faith in God.

Remember, there were several Waffen SS officers who risked their lives and their careers to fly to England and end that senseless war. I hope to shake their hands on the Sea of Glass. Yes, bikers and Nazis will be in Heaven...
 
#36 ·
Remember, there were several Waffen SS officers who risked their lives and their careers to fly to England and end that senseless war. I hope to shake their hands on the Sea of Glass. Yes, bikers and Nazis will be in Heaven...
Might even be a protestant or two there as well--if you guys are lucky. God is so generous. :vs_smirk:
 
#44 ·
Denton, as usual you have taken me to the brink. I am fully 95% with you.

There is one nagging little line of dialog that I cannot ignore. Whether it be the Bible or the last five minutes of the movie "The Ten Commandments," there is the concept of handing down The Word of God to the next generation. As Moses goes off to Moab to meet with his Creator, the entire written word is handed to Joshua (John Derek). Joshua doesn't demean or worship Moses, he seeks to ascertain the direction of God and those who follow him.

Joshua simply says, "As for me and my house, we shall worship the Lord."

Now, Biblically, I don't think anyone revered or defended Moses more than Joshua. But when Moses was called home, it was the direction of God that Joshua vowed to protect, not the memory of a mere mortal, even if that man had seen The Burning Bush.

Personally, I have my struggles over this. For example, did I do right in leaving the Catholic church? Did I reject God because I couldn't stomach the idolators? Or should I acquiesce and put on my best pair of crappy jeans and get to mass? What would the Burning Bush want me to do?
 
#45 · (Edited)
On a separate but related subject, what is this B.S. Racket called "Confession" in the Catholic Church?

Mrs Slippy reminds me that there is nothing in the Bible that commands or even suggests that a man confess his sins to a priest or a church employee. However if you sin against another man you should confess your sin to that man in order to ask for his forgiveness. She says its in the book of James but I didn't look it up.

She goes on to say that the practice of confession to a priest abominates the fact that Christ died on the Cross for our sins. Makes sense to me.

it also seems to me that confessing your sins to a priest puts that priest, another man, in between you and your relationship with Christ. I believe that having a personal relationship with God is vital in Christianity, not having to go through a church employee. Isn't that part of why the pilgrims left the Church of England? Anyway...back to my diatribe about confession...

...Since we know for a fact that many many many priests and bishops are evil homosexual, pedophile types that confessing ones sins to them may lead to a certain amount of blackmail from these priests?

I suppose that if a man has a sexual proclivity toward another man's anus or an innocent child that man would have no problem blackmailing you after you confess that you kissed Betty Jablonski at the office party in 1968?

 
#48 · (Edited)
You might find this hard to believe, but as I near to Clint Eastwood's age, I too am the most troubled by sins that are decades old. The problem is what didn't seem so bad four decades ago is now obvious and painful. But what do you do if sins that effected those are long since gone?

My mother was an alcoholic and took a lot of shots at me--and I never embraced any of her four dry-outs. She once told me it was a "disease," to which I countered that yes, it was an ailment, but of the 'elbow.' Hers just kept bending towards her mouth...

At that point I had recently broken up with the woman I would one day marry and moved in with The Red Queen. We got a letter so illegibly written it looked like a kid's first attempt at cursive. BTW, for you who are outcome based educated millennials, "cursive" is an obscure Amenhotep variant believed to center on ancient pyramid construction.

Turns out this letter was written by my mother, not exactly a plea for forgiveness but about as close as I was going to get. I never verbally forgave her.

I never saw what my dad went through. All he did was earn every nickel I spent, supported a woman who was in and out of mental institutions and try to cope with an under-age MENSA child, racked with fear and an ulcer since he was 12 years old--my little brother, now a professor.

It seemed like self defense--at the time. I cannot go back and repair that mess, so it haunts me. I've loss count at the dozens of times I've asked for forgiveness, so I get Clint's character's confession.
 
#53 ·
Thomas does knot doubt this, as I was enlightened tonight

Ye that have ears to hear, I just heard it a few minnows ago.

John 1 King James Version (KJV)

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

2 The same was in the beginning with God.

3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.

6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John.

7 The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe.

8 He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light.

9 That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.

10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John+1&version=KJV
 
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