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Stupid shotgun question

7K views 42 replies 25 participants last post by  PaulS 
#1 ·
So I took my new 870 out. (20 g, youth model). We had #6 and #4 shot. Goodness! I put the butt really tight into my shoulder, and still, after 5 shots, I was really sore. The next day I bought a butt pad. My big, beefy son shot more, and he was sore, too. OK, how in the world do kids start with skeet shooting? Are their guns so different that it doesn't kick so hard? I know they have longer barrels, chokes, and different shot, but how do little kids pull it off? My nephew started skeet shooting at age 9 and he's really good. I feel like such a wimp. It was not enjoyable at all, but blasting holes through plywood was quite impressive. At least I know in a home defense situation the gun will be effective. I just want to know what is so different that kids can handle shotguns without getting beat up.
 
#2 ·
Those shirts with shoulder pads really help out more than a butt pad placed on the shotgun in my experience. I skeet shoot at least once a month and a few days afterwards I'm bruised like crazy. Its repetition that will not make it so sore and bruised. If they can get out at least once a week for a few rounds then it will toughen up.
 
#4 ·
Ah ha - shirts with padding. Of course. And the vigor of youth probably plays a big part, too. A grandma with arthritis probably has no business shooting a shotgun except to know how to use it in an emergency. I need to practice at least once a month, I know, but am not looking forward to it. Maybe I will just get some really light bird shot for the sake of being able to practice with the gun.
 
#7 ·
Your getting some good advice. The kick pad and shirt should help. Only thing I might add is make sure and get the low velocity skeet/dove loads. One of my earliest guns was a .12 single shot. Short and light and would flat kick the snot out of person with the high base shells.
 
#20 ·
Ah, . . . memories you bring up, . . . mine was a .410 double barrel, . . . plastic stock, . . . short, easy to use, light, . . . Babe the blue Ox could not have kicked harder, . . . and at 15 yrs old, . . . almost 6 ft but only 110 lbs, . . . there wasn't much meat to help stop the whack.

I've got a Beretta semi-auto "riot" shotgun now, . . . it is reserved for practice, . . . and for stuff hitting the fan, . . . nothing else. I simply cannot endure the pain.

I also found that reloading your own shotgun shells, . . . getting the power down a bit, . . . makes a world of difference too.

That Beretta is rated for 3 inch slugs, . . . my son is the only one who ever tried it, . . . one box of 5, . . . he decided the 2 3/4 slugs were good enough, . . . lol.

May God bless,
Dwight
 
#8 ·
Not a stupid question at all. Look for some low recoil loads, it may help. Also understand that the 870 is not really the best shotgun to take on an all day skeet shooting event. A a good sporting clay, trap or skeet shotgun might cost you $2000-$5000 and I'm here to tell you that you can feel the difference in a really expensive sporting shotgun vs a Home Defense Firearm like the 870.

Also the next time you shoot, try a box or two of different sized shot loads and see if you can tell the difference. You can also buy a shirt or jacket with a recoil pad in addition to the pad that you already bought.

The more you shoot, the more you'll get used to it...Skeet shooting and shotgunning overall takes practice, time and repetition...If you want to get better. The old saying no pain, no gain applies to being a good skeet, trap or sporting clay shooter. Through trial and error as well as asking someone at your local gun store to recomend a low recoil round...you may find a certain manufacturer whose recoil and load you like. (Fiocchi makes one, I just remembered)

Have fun and shoot, shoot, shoot. Practice makes perfect.
 
#9 ·
I understand that the 870 is not intended for skeet shooting. I just wondered how much different the "good" guns feel compared to this one. I will definitely get some low recoil ammo. We used #6, 2-3/4, 1225 velocity (game load) as well as some #4, 2-3/4, 1220 velocity (pheasant load). I could tell the difference. The #4 definitely had more kick. OK, so here is another question. I've been told that #4 was OK for home defense, and then told that 00 buckshot is the best for home defense. Would low velocity 00 feel about the same as the #4 we have, or would it have even more kick?
 
#26 · (Edited)
Kind of surprised someone didn't pick up on this part of the posting and do some edification .... there's two #4s available in shot shells - and duplicate #s for most others as well .... the shot available is actually split between "birdshot" and "buckshot" .... and never to be confused between the two ....



for example: if you check the chart you'll see #4 birdshot is .130 in diameter and #4 buck is .240 in diameter - coming up on being twice the diameter .... the 00Buck you mention comes in at .330 diameter

in regard to reading that "#4" is OK for home defense .... that opens a whole discussion unto itself .... this reference you read could have been referring to either #4 birdshot or buck .... the "experts" preach both ways and the advocates follow along the same path ....

if you guys are winterbound and bored maybe it's a topic to discuss .....
 
#10 ·
We use a stance that we were taught by H&K in which you spread your feet shoulder length apart and lean into the weapon, raising it slightly higher in the pocket of your shoulder so that the top of the comb extends a little above your shoulder. That helps a great deal.
 
#11 ·
Without using a drop & pull gauge you can still see if a stock is too long for you. Grasp the shotgun like you were going to shoot it. Lay the butt against your bicep close to the elbow & you should be able to move the elbow 90 degrees. If you can't, the buttstock is too long.
You can do the same thing with a yard stick butting the zero against the bicep. You will get a close reading of how long it should be from the trigger to the end of the buttstock.
 
#13 ·
Its a good sign that you can tell the difference in kick, that will help you as you get more accustomed to shooting the shotgun.

As far as what I suggest for Home Defense...I've gone almost exclusively to the Winchester PDX1 round. It is a no nonsense 00Buck with a Slug. It is one nasty load. Like the song goes, "this ain't no party, this ain't no disco, this ain't no foolin' around."...and the PDX1 is not foolin around.

Note, we are alone in the home most of the time, kids are gone so I have no problem shooting through a wall if need be. Any stupid druggie that wants to hide behind a wall in my house will get blasted THRU the wall.

http://www.winchester.com/Products/New-Products/Pages/pdx1-12.aspx

To answer your question, once you get comfortable shooting your shotgun, take a class from a certified instructor at a location that you can rent a high dollar sporting shotgun. Go light, and rent a 28 gauge if you can. I assure you that your will amaze yourself. The difference will astound you.
 
#14 ·
You can also add weight to the shotgun to reduce recoil. Some people add a mercury filled recoil reducer. This adds weight too, which helps, but they are supposed to spread the recoil impulse over a longer period of time, so you get more of a push than a punch. I've never used them, so can't say how effective they might be.

If you want lower recoil, look for lighter and/or slower loads.
 
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#15 ·
I would say start off with #7 or #8 shot to get used to the shotgun. Then play with bigger loads. The problem with pump actions is that you feel most the recoil, in a semi the action will take some of the felt recoil out of the gun, also a lot of skeet guns while they are over under's are heavy to help take some of the felt recoil out of the gun.

Best thing you can do if your skeet or trap shooting or even hunting is to buy a vest that have the padding on your shooting shoulder, it really helps.

As for the difference between 2 3/4" an 3" and 3 1/2" shells its just more powered and more shot. Some people say you need the 3 1/2 shells for geese, but 3" works just as well you just have to wait an extra 3-4 second for them to get a little closer before you open fire. As for slugs they travel at a higher speed but damn they hurt and I am 6'2 220 and normally I wont complain about recoil but 3 1/2 inch slugs suck...
 
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#17 ·
If you are complaining about bird shot. You are really going to get your ass kicked with slugs or buck shot.

I bought my girls the exact same gun that you have. They do not want any thing to do with it.

I have a six position stock on my sig 400 AR 15 and they like to shoot that no recoil.

So Joe Biden is an idiot. But we knew that.
 
#18 ·
When you shoot a rifle, turck your elbow in next to your abdomen. But when you shoot a shotty, you need to put that arm out 90 degrees and make it like a chicken wing. This will create a natural pocket over your armpit and inside of your shoulder joint. That pocket helps the butt stock ride right and avoids slipping. The pain you feel (of you have it firmly against your shoulder) isn't so much the recoil, but the butt slipping across your skin. Makes a nasty bruise.

Use that pocket to control it.

And yes - I'm 6'2" and 270lbs. I shoot 12ga and when I go out and bust 75 to 100 clays, I still feel it. You wanna really know what hurt is like, step up to 12ga High Brass, High velocity, 00 Buck (15 pellet) deer loads. Holy Mother of PEARL! I've still got a box of that because I'm waiting to right before I die to shoot it. Hurts too bad to want to live through.
 
#19 ·
The 870 is a fine trap gun , when we shot as a family team every one of us used one. As others have said stick with normal loads for now hold the weapon frimly in sholder.
Don't over do it and you will work up to it.
 
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#21 ·
We own two 870 Wingmasters. One in 20 gauge which we all use to shoot clays. My wife and daughter both like it but can only stand a max of about 50 sporting clay rounds. The other is a 12 gauge mag that only I use for turkey hunting. Yes, it kicks hard with a 3" mag turkey load. We also own a Mossberg 500 home defense shotgun with a shortened barrel and extended magazine. Even a light clay load will kick hard.

Point being, both the shotgun and the load used matters. Try a light sporting clay load for practice and you may be surprised at the lighter recoil. Practice will also help. Keep practicing, and keep us posted on your progress.
 
#22 ·
Having shot skeet and Trap competitively for several years while stationed in Japan...Ill make a few suggestions.

First a pump shot gun while it will work aint the best tool to use or start with especially in 12 gauge. There is a reason why you see a lot of shooters shooting O/U's! Yes they are heavier but that weight will soak up the recoil in even those light weight target skeet loads. That weight also allows them to swing better and more smoothly as most shooters will miss the clay bird due to not following through on the shot. Fit can make a huge difference too. You have to have a shot gun stock that fits the shooter. Using a proper stance will also up the any on your shooting score too as well as help you manage the recoil and shoot a dozen rounds of skeet in a afternoon like it aint nothing but a thang. Dropping down to a 20 gauge will also probably help you out a little bit without lightening your shot load significantly enough to cause you to start missing clay birds. Just remember the more you drop down in gauge the more on the money your gonna have to be with your shot aiming in order to bust that clay bird. A shooter who can bust 25 clay birds in a round of skeet with a 410 impresses me a lot more than someone who can do that with a 12 gauge as the shooter with the 410 will have to be much more skilled to pull off that feat. Those shooting skeet will normally use a shorter barreled shotgun with open chokes...ie a "Skeet Choke". Barrels in the 26-28 inch range are typical. Trap on the other hand will often use a 28-32 inch barrels and use a tighter choke as the clay birds are typically shot at farther ranges than the typical skeet clay bird plus the bird is being launched 16 yards away from you to begin with and launched at a direction going away from the shooter. Skeet best simulates a hunting situation where you are "pass shooting" where Trap simulates walking through a field and flushing birds that are flying away from the shooters position. If recoil is still an issue you might want to look at an auto loader although they can be notorious for not cycling the light skeet and trap loads. Maybe auto loaders have improved considerably since I shot with a Remington 1100.

While O/U's are heavier, they have a more balanced feel to them making them handle very well despite their weight. I wasn't a fan of O/U's or SS's until I got in to skeet and trap shooting. Once I tried one though...it was like being on a whole 'nother level. With in a few months I went from owning none to owning 7 of them! Even today when I do par take of bird hunting and water fowling...yes I take a O/U. Its what I feel most comfortable with and its whats given me the highest degree of confidence when shooting moving targets in the air. Yes I score just as well as the guys with the 3 1/2 inch auto loaders do despite being restricted to 2 shots and using 2 3/4 inch shells. Needless to say I am not as welcomed in the duck blind as I once was...but we are still drinking buddies.
 
#23 · (Edited)
First of all, stop worrying. All is well. Your gun is functioning normally.

There are several issues here.

1. Youth model is lighter the regular 870.....shorter stock, shorter barrel......that means more recoil.

2. More padding is good.

3. Length of pull is a separate issue. Yes, youth model will have a short length of pull and that's because they assume smaller people will be using the gun. It's just fine if you're a small person. A larger person can get a pad that goes on and off easily to lengthen the pull and also help with recoil bruising.

4. Light loads (7/8 ounce in 20 gauge) will give the lightest recoil. Shot SIZE will make no difference at all, but the WEIGHT of the load will indeed make a difference in recoil. Heavier loads have more recoil. This is simple physics.

5. Your gun is a good gun for home defense. In home defense you will not shoot 50 rounds (we hope). Your gun is not so good for a lot of shooting, (like skeet)....because as you have noticed, it kicks like hell.

Save the heavy loads for home defense and shoot the 7/8 ounce loads for practice.

All is well. Everything is working as it should.

If you want to shoot skeet, buy a good skeet gun.
 
#24 ·
There is also the option of recoil reducing stocks. A company called Blackhawk! Make an adjustable stock similar to what you would see on an ar15. It has a couple springs inside it that supposedly absorb a lot of the recoil. I know they will fit standard 870s but not sure about the youth model 20 gauge. I will also say that a semi auto shoots softer. I have a 20 gauge 1100 I use for dove, quail and other small tasty critters that I can comfortably shoot a lot of shells out of. It's the only shotgun other than tje 410 I own that my wife will shoot, after trying the others I have.
 
#27 ·
They said "Pheasant load" so it would not be buckshot.

The debate about buckshot verses regular number four is indeed a complex one.

They seem to have a good start on things with regular number four shot rather than buckshot.

Maybe they'll get into buckshot later after more research if they think it wise.

That's a good future discussion.
 
#28 ·
Thank you all, SO MUCH! I've picked up some good tips and will definitely put them to use next time I go out to shoot. And no, GT, I really DON'T want to know what hurt is all about, so I'll stay away from 12 g-high brass-high velocity-00 buck shot-deer loads, thank you! Part of my issue might be that I am still recovering from surgical pain on the right side of my chest/ribs/back. My surgeon cleared me for normal activity, but I forgot to ask if shooting a shotgun was considered "normal activity." :)
 
#29 · (Edited)
They said "Pheasant load" so it would not be buckshot.

The debate about buckshot verses regular number four is indeed a complex one.

They seem to have a good start on things with regular number four shot rather than buckshot.

Maybe they'll get into buckshot later after more research if they think it wise.

That's a good future discussion.




what loads she has presently nothing to do with the discussion I started .... read what I hi-lited and then my posting ....

there's a very common lack of knowledge when it comes to shotshell loads and in particular home defense .... that's the discussion
 
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